Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (August 8, 2014)

[Serra]

It's definitely disappointing that these movies are such poor quality and yet they're doing so well financially. Realistically, a large part doesn't come down to the director, but just the name. Both the Turtles and Transformers have such huge appeal to kids, they're guaranteed to do well financially. It's just especially disappointing when you look at the MCU or the Nolan Batman movies and realize directors can take classic franchises and make quality films.

[Kohan]

It's definitely disappointing that these movies are such poor quality and yet they're doing so well financially. Realistically, a large part doesn't come down to the director, but just the name. Both the Turtles and Transformers have such huge appeal to kids, they're guaranteed to do well financially. It's just especially disappointing when you look at the MCU or the Nolan Batman movies and realize directors can take classic franchises and make quality films.

You know how people in this very thread have said "who cares, considering what it is"? That's why.

I consider it a completely abhorrent trend—an offensive suggestion that quality is unimportant—and a terrible excuse overall, but my opinion is meaningless to those that don't give a shit anyway, as is yours. It's the same reason well-made television shows nowadays (e.g., "Young Justice") tend to not last long, unless they're selling acceptable amounts of merchandise. Why put in the effort into creating a worthwhile product when the majority of consumers don't care to be discerning?

[Gredival]

There's nothing to 'recapture,' every Transformers movie has grossed more than the one before it.

Well the first one was actually not a god-awful terrible movie.

[Serra]

You know how people in this very thread have said "who cares, considering what it is"? That's why.

I consider it a completely abhorrent trend—an offensive suggestion that quality is unimportant—and a terrible excuse overall, but my opinion is meaningless to those that don't give a shit anyway, as is yours. It's the same reason well-made television shows nowadays (e.g., "Young Justice") tend to not last long, unless they're selling acceptable amounts of merchandise. Why put in the effort into creating a worthwhile product when the majority of consumers don't care to be discerning?

There is part of me that looks at the success of movies like Guardians and Captain America (which look to be the two contenders for highest grossing movies of the year) and hopes that they'd have an impact on producing better quality films. But, then there's the part of me that thinks, what's the difference between a really really really big pile of money and a really really big pile of money..

[gaira]

i wouldn't expect much out of any movie based on a cartoon designed to promote toys to kids.

pretty sure they know they can get away with making a relatively poor movie in situations like this and still bring in bank off of name recognition alone (even if they have aspirations of doing the source material justice).

[chazzyphizzle]

it was a comic book first broski

[BaneTheBrawler]

saw it today. not impressed, but it wasn't as bad as i was expecting. turtles were good (except donny, who is a robot). everything else sucked. they spent more time on everything else.


also, shredder can teleport, girders explode, and magic debris.

[Kohan]

i wouldn't expect much out of any movie based on a cartoon designed to promote toys to kids.

And here we have a perfect example of the "who cares?" mentality. Kids like garbage, so shows like "Batman: The Animated Series," "Avatar: The Last Airbender," etc., are unnecessary anomalies. Taking a property like TMNT and making a film that appeals to all audiences is a waste of time. Let's forego caring about quality, everyone.

[Bregor]

You know how people in this very thread have said "who cares, considering what it is"? That's why.

I consider it a completely abhorrent trend—an offensive suggestion that quality is unimportant—and a terrible excuse overall, but my opinion is meaningless to those that don't give a shit anyway, as is yours. It's the same reason well-made television shows nowadays (e.g., "Young Justice") tend to not last long, unless they're selling acceptable amounts of merchandise. Why put in the effort into creating a worthwhile product when the majority of consumers don't care to be discerning?

It's actually worse than that if you ask me. Consumers are discerning enough to see something new or thought-provoking, and then they reject it. I feel like if they took the time to make TMNT into a compelling narrative for a film, it would actually make less money. Take the Incredible Hulk movies. The Ang Lee version tried to bring depth to the character, going away from the superhero canon a bit and thinking first and foremost about how to tell a character-driven story on the big screen. Unfortunately it lacked the "wow" factor, as the CGI and action were somewhat lackluster. But it was still a pretty good commercial success. Then Marvel decides to make a shitload of movies leading up to The Avengers, and they just can't have that wishy-washy Hulk dragging them down, so they reboot the thing into the same damn summer blockbuster you've seen 200 times before to fit in with the franchise. What's the lesson? If you want more sequels, more extended franchises, and more money, make a simple retread of a movie. New concepts? Depth? Get the fuck out.

The Nolan Batman films are the exception that proves the rule. Also most filmmakers aren't Christopher Nolan, and most actors aren't Christian Bale or Michael Caine.

[Kohan]

It's actually worse than that if you ask me. Consumers are discerning enough to see something new or thought-provoking, and then they reject it. I feel like if they took the time to make TMNT into a compelling narrative for a film, it would actually make less money. Take the Incredible Hulk movies. The Ang Lee version tried to bring depth to the character, going away from the superhero canon a bit and thinking first and foremost about how to tell a character-driven story on the big screen. Unfortunately it lacked the "wow" factor, as the CGI and action were somewhat lackluster. But it was still a pretty good commercial success. Then Marvel decides to make a shitload of movies leading up to The Avengers, and they just can't have that wishy-washy Hulk dragging them down, so they reboot the thing into the same damn summer blockbuster you've seen 200 times before to fit in with the franchise. What's the lesson? If you want more sequels, more extended franchises, and more money, make a simple retread of a movie. New concepts? Depth? Get the fuck out.

The Nolan Batman films are the exception that proves the rule. Also most filmmakers aren't Christopher Nolan, and most actors aren't Christian Bale or Michael Caine.

I agree with the concept of what you wrote, but I can't entertain that example. The Ang Lee "Hulk" made some interesting artistic decisions, and I appreciated them. They had an aesthetic that paid homage not only to comic books, but filming techniques in the 1970s, a decade which any Hulk fan can easily associate with the TV series starring Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno. I wouldn't call it bringing depth to the character so much as I'd call it a needlessly angsty piece of bad fanfiction garbage, though. Daddy problems, evil scientists, selective amnesia, everything that a budding teenage writer of trashy novels thinks makes for exciting and new plot points, et cetera. I wouldn't expect discerning nor uncaring audiences to want another one of those, and I'd call "The Incredible Hulk" a superior movie.

Coincidentally, I also thought that the third Nolan Batman movie was total ass, and I'm a huge Batman fan. Bane was boring, and the climax is a huge bomb that Batman has to fly away from the town to save everyone (spoilers)? Fucking really? Snore. I'm with you on the others, though.

That said, I'd take the Ang Lee "Hulk" over the Michael Bay TMNT. It wasn't as deliberately packed with condescending assumptions as to the intelligence and tolerance levels of its audience.

[Bregor]

Yeah I'll agree that the Ang Lee Hulk fell way short, but at least they tried to do something interesting (tried being the operative in my above post).

I also agree about The Dark Knight Rises. I think the setup and meat of the film was pretty good, but the twist everyone saw coming a mile away and the "sometimes you just can't get rid of a nuclear bomb" ending were pretty bad. Maybe the Nolans just had some fatigue with the material? Would make sense considering he only has an executive producer credit for Superman v Batman.

Thinking about those two examples, it's a shame more talented directors don't get involved in traditional blockbusters. We keep getting the Michael Bays and Brett Ratners of the world.

[Kohan]

Yeah I'll agree that the Ang Lee Hulk fell way short, but at least they tried to do something interesting (tried being the operative in my above post).

All right. I can definitely accept your viewpoint with this context.

I also agree about The Dark Knight Rises. I think the setup and meat of the film was pretty good, but the twist everyone saw coming a mile away and the "sometimes you just can't get rid of a nuclear bomb" ending were pretty bad. Maybe the Nolans just had some fatigue with the material? Would make sense considering he only has an executive producer credit for Superman v Batman.

Thinking about those two examples, it's a shame more talented directors don't get involved in traditional blockbusters. We keep getting the Michael Bays and Brett Ratners of the world.

I agree. I could also get into what a load of pretentious bullshit is behind making it "Batman v Superman" instead of "Batman vs. Superman," but that's even more off-topic.

Let's bring things back with what I consider the most simultaneously comprehensive and nerd-friendly take-down of Bay's TMNT:

Lucy Liu voice: "You didn't really think it was going to be any good, did you?"

Beatrix Kiddo voice: "You know...for a second there...huh, yeah. I kinda did."

Following one of the most disastrous marketing campaigns I've seen in a long time, one that emphasized the Michael Bay connection and failed to get good studio-controlled images of its main characters out there before ancillary merchandising got there first, I was finally starting to hear things about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that gave me hope. Like director Jonathan Liebesman saying he loved the cartoon and wanted to be true to it. Rumors that William Fichtner was not, in fact, playing a racially miscast Shredder. Teasers that mocked the idea of the turtles being aliens. Kevin Eastman saying he liked it (to be fair, Eastman, much like Stan Lee, Will Endorse For Food). I'm not even a total hater of the redesigns (save the stupid nostrils) and was looking forward to maybe owning some of the toys.

And then I'm pretty sure I saw a movie in which Michelangelo wants to fuck April.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2014/08/...nitwits_in.php

[jinkazama]

I held a private screening for it for some close friends and family Sunday afternoon. I forgot my sunglasses so the lens flare killed me, but that was to be expected. There wasnt enough time to build up backstory or get to know the turtle. Mikey and Ralph' personalities were ok, Donny like previously stated was horrible, and Johnny Knoxville killed Leo's voice in my opinion.

This summer has been a god awful summer for movies. I know we're down almost 30K compared to this time last summer, and the industry as a whole is down over 1 billion. I dont know about the rest of the country, but here in Florida my families theatre thrives from the heat and insisting rain in florida. We can have any blockbuster hit out, if the skies are clear and its less than 90 degrees outside, then there isnt hardly anybody there, but if its hot or raining then we're typically slammed.

All in all the quality of films is going down. Godzilla, Expendables 3, and GotG, were the only tolerable "Blockbusters" this summer in my opinion. Lucy, Transformers, Turtles, Hercules and Earth to Echo fell short. I havent had a chance to screen Sin City yet, so there's still hope for that one.

[Kaslo]

Well to be fair, the new cartoon is succeeding in a universe where donny wants to fuck April sooo...

[jinkazama]

The cartoon is pretty good actually. I'm fairly sure any of us here on BG given the same budget could have produced a better movie than this one.

[Correction]

Thinking about those two examples, it's a shame more talented directors don't get involved in traditional blockbusters. We keep getting the Michael Bays and Brett Ratners of the world.

I hate to be the one that says it, but money talks, bro.

Also people need to go back and remember the true depths plumbed by TMNT on the big screen before condemning Liebesman's vision.

If you can watch that, all of that, and then with a straight face say 'Michael Bay killed the toitles' you aren't thinking straight.

[Weltall]

It is interesting to me that the summer sales are down overall. I figured with Godzilla, TMNT, Cap America 2, and GoTG it would have been a massive summer for movie sales.

The first Nolan Batman was the only great one. The third was terrible.

[jinkazama]

Coming from somebody who's been raised in movie theatres, trust me, movies like transformers and the such arent what make the money. Its the childrens movies that bring in the most money, and the have been missing this entire summer

[Weltall]

I totally believed you. I just found it interesting!

[Waraji]

Kids Movies = Kids = Concession Sales Through The Roof = Happy Theater Owner in Piles of Cash.