What's Better?

[Salodin]

For DNC:

Papilio/Magian acc dagger
Papilio/Cinquedea
Magian acc dagger/Cinquedea

Or any other reasonable combination of daggers. Excluding OaT Magian dagger cause I won't be getting any anytime soon. Ty.

[Rionel]

I'd almost think x2 of the ACC Magian Daggers wouldn't be a bad choice either. And yes, you can own two because it's EX, not Rare.

+16 ACC and +8 DEX (Which makes it +20 ACC) just from Main/Sub hand alone is nothing to scoff at I would say. Also considering DNC has some issues with gear that has haste and some sort of ACC (Not being able to use Homam sucks and so does only having once choice of armor with the Mini-Expansions).

[Salodin]

Hmm...thats a good point, never thought about dual wielding the same dagger. If I was looking for a stronger main hand for ws, how about Papilio vs str/atk magian dagger?

I completely overlooked it originally for some reason. But it is only 1dmg below papilio, no accuracy but has an extra fstr on it (which actually makes it even with papilio) and more attack. Slightly less delay too. Sooo I rephrase my question:

Attack Magian dagger/Acc magian dagger for a solid dagger build for dnc? Does the extra 5 acc make it worth dual wielding two acc magian daggers? Is Cinquedea even worth it any more? Ty.

[Rionel]

You also have to remember that Papilio Kirpan's Latent Bonus is only in effect if you have under 100TP.

As a DNC, I'm not sure how often you'd have less than 100TP as you'd also have Curing Waltz duties to attend to, compared to another ACC Magian Dagger which is in effect all the time.

[Salodin]

Yeah pretty much not getting papilio now. Just gotta decide if I'm getting a second acc magian dagger, or the str/attack one to complete my set.

[Rionel]

DNC definitely would benefit more for the ACC I would say.

As a one hander and getting gypped on gear like Homam, I think double ACC might be better in the long run.

Though we don't even know how much more effective these Magian Daggers are gonna get really. Heck, gear even!

It's hard to say with the update coming so soon. Best wait and see perhaps? You never know what might come up with this gigantic update.

Plus looking at how much love SE is giving DNC right now... we might have even more goodies coming our way.

[Salodin]

I'll take your advice and give it a "wait and see" approach. I'm half way through my acc dagger right now, I'll finish that and wait till I see the full extent of what this update brings to DNC.

[Byrthnoth]

So, as was asked earlier in the thread too, I think DNC weapon/gear choice is going to come down to what role they end up playing in a subbable-Haste, level 80 world. They have a pretty wide variety of weapons to choose from.

Dex/Acc Dakini, Sleight Kukri, Cinquedea, Papilio Kirpan, OA2/3/4 daggers, Kartika, Machismo

So, a Dancer's first priority has to be to get enough TP to keep doing whatever their job is. If they end up main healing, this could be substantial. However, the max TP/second they'll need is limited by the recast on their waltzes, so we can calculate what that'll be.

Curing Waltz III has the shortest recast for the TP it costs 50 TP per 10 seconds. You can macro in a -2 seconds augment, so 50 TP/8 seconds. 6.25 TP/second for Waltz assuming you're spamming Curing Waltz III and don't have the -5TP/waltz augment. Haste Samba costs 35TP and lasts for 2 minutes with AF hat. tack on another ~0.3 TP/second. Steps cost 10TP each, but you get 2x what you spend back. This may actually not offset the swing delay you experience when you use steps, so this could be another source of TP/second loss, but I'm going to negate it for the moment. All these JA delays add up, and they're very difficult to predict because we know so little about them.

Aaaand because of that last sentence I'm going to stop my analysis here. My gut feeling on the weapons are:
Sleight Kukri is not useful to a 75 DNC. Unless you're dual wielding it with Cinq, you might as well just be using Cinq instead as it'll do better damage and give STP over 100TP.
Cinquedea is a very attractive weapon for a main healing DNC regardless of whether or not they have the OAT dagger. It helps push your DW delay down below 180/hand and increase your TP/second, while also giving you 5 STP above 100.
Papilio Kirpan is not worthwhile in any situation you'd want a DNC for anymore. The latent is active below 100TP, and it's less accuracy/lower DPS than the Magian Acc dagger.
DNCs with an OA2, 3, or 4 weapon will be dramatically better off and likely the only ones capable of faux DDing while main healing xp parties.
Kartika just doesn't seem worth getting. As far as TP gain goes, it brings nothing to the table, and as far as damage (when you don't need Acc) goes, you'd be better off with the STR/Atk dagger with an OAT offhand.
Acc Dakini is interesting and probably worth having in your arsenal, but it loses to Cinquedea in terms of improving TP gain even at fairly low hit rates.
Machismo falls into the same category as Kartika and Papillio Kirpan.


Gearing Philosophy:
You always want to be wearing as close to 25% Haste as you can. Because Dancer is essentially guaranteed Samba, Haste and 2 Marches in xp parties, Haste's value is very high for them.
For instance, what would a DNC's starting hit rate need to be for a 14 Acc body (12*Sushi) to be better than Rapparee Harness (17% from gear +45% from magic without it)?
x/.34 = (x+.07)/.38 :: x = 59.5%

You'd have to be running a 60% Hit rate for SH+1 to be better than Rapparee Harness at 75 both in terms of TP gain and damage. Obviously you don't want to run a 60% hit rate, but this is just pointing out how broken 4% Haste is.


Food Choice:
If you need more TP to do your job and keep people alive, make sure your hit rate is capped by eating Sushi.
If you get more than enough TP and can afford to sacrifice a little for 50-55 attack to increase your damage overall, eat Pizza.

[CDF]

By JA delay, do you mean this?

[Onorgul]

By JA delay, do you mean this?

Heaven and earth, thank you for posting this.

[Katlan]

Kinda curious on this. Just did ASA last night and torn on the pants for my whm or blm.
I don't need movement speed because i have Gaiters..

BLM: I use Jet Seraweels, but would the Macc/MAB be better by a significant enough amount (if it's only like a few dmg points increase i'm gonna get whm pants) to warrant using it over the cure5% pants for whm?

WHM: What would be a better 2nd augment for WHM pants w/cure5%, would u recommend haste or MP/-enimity

Thanks a lot

[Deader2818]

Sell Jets, get Mahatma Slops. Would be equal to getting MACC/MATTK bonus.

Get them for WHM and cure Cure+5% with haste prob. Can use them for BLM and WHM then.

[Clerix]

Kinda curious on this. Just did ASA last night and torn on the pants for my whm or blm.
I don't need movement speed because i have Gaiters..

BLM: I use Jet Seraweels, but would the Macc/MAB be better by a significant enough amount (if it's only like a few dmg points increase i'm gonna get whm pants) to warrant using it over the cure5% pants for whm?

WHM: What would be a better 2nd augment for WHM pants w/cure5%, would u recommend haste or MP/-enimity

Thanks a lot

BLM could use PDT; but its the same amount as Goliard Trew.

WHM, I think, would be best with cure potency/-enmity.

[Draylo]

Well goliard are -3%, Shantotto pants -4%

[Katlan]

eh not as worried about -PDT, but sounds like WHM pants are generally a better choice for macro cure. Tried to find more info on BLM pants, but seems to be its a minor dmg increase and its situational since +INT is usually a better choice for legs

[Draylo]

I wouldn't get -enmity for WHM, better of with the haste on those pants tbh.

[Clerix]

I wouldn't get -enmity for WHM, better of with the haste on those pants tbh.

Because blessed trousers are so expensive.

[Draylo]

In addition to the cure potency idiot...

[Chen]

get -enm on the pants, if you're doing cure potency imo.

although the real answer is movement +curepotency (assuming no gaiterS)

[Draylo]

Waste imo compared to haste.