What's Better?

[Talyen42]

Perle set, worthwhile?

Net change over haub/dusk/turban/bhaidate/aurum:

+17 str +2% crit +3 acc +5 att -9 dex -2% haste

[noodles355]

Perle set, worthwhile?

Net change over haub/dusk/turban/bhaidate/aurum:

+17 str +2% crit +3 acc +5 att -9 dex -2% haste

Unsure on War, but I think it is for drg,
Vs: Turban/3Homam and Wyrm+1 or Aurum:

Wyrm+1: +22Str, +15Acc, +33Att, +2% Crit for 3% Haste.
Aurum: +14 Str, +9-10 Acc, +12-13 Att and +2% Crit, for 1% Haste

99% certain it would beat the 3homam/turban and aurum even at capped acc, unsure about with wyrm+1 at capped acc. But uncapped it decimates aurum and should also pound wyrm+1 set.

(Assuming 6hit doesn't require body, through vork/rose, rose/wtath or OAT/rose)

It's definitely a new goal for me. Though tbh if it's just bought with points I'd be getting the legs at least asap, 5Dex/10Acc/2Haste? Yspls (Btw omega is a bitch, 4/5 no legs, which is why im fapping over them so much)

[Raen Ryong]

I second this, which is the best magican scythe atm? I see a few nice ones, but I have no clue which maths stronger...

522 - Vengence
dmg 78 delay 528
OAT

1467 - Maleficence
dmg 51 delay 528
OAThree

1469 - Maleficence
dmg 105 delay 528
double attk +5

1463 - Redemption
dmg 113 delay 502

Okay, can remove 1469 from the running immediately because the delay difference between it and Redemption ~equals or beats the 5% DA alone before you consider base D difference.

OaT vs Redemption, rough math (not accounting for possibility of Sword Strap, or TP overflow or anything painful like that -- using rough fSTR value of 8 and base damage added during WS = 40);

Delay difference: 4.3% DoT/WS frequency for Redemption
DMG difference: 40.7% stronger DoT/27.8% stronger WSs for Redemption
OaT with base DA only from Brutal: 38.1% DoT/WS frequency for OaT

Basically you're looking at a break-even scenario on a 50/50 TP/WS split (and assuming no liberal use of Souleater which strongly favours OaT, but even moreso Oa3x). The winner of these depends basically on what SE does to both of them. If Redemption is supposed to be this amazing crushingly powerful weapon, can probably assume it will end up the stronger of the two. Also less TP feed etc.

Would have to know hit distributions on Oa3x to make a judgment call on it.

[Mercilessturtle]

Vengeance doesn't belong in that list, it should be a Maleficence too. So it is actually 82 damage 528 delay OAT. That brings the OAT up to be the clear lead, since now redemption is only +34.5% in the TP phase from damage.

[Cream Soda]

Gorget vs faith torque for asuran @ 80? (torque bumps up h2h dmg tier by 1 assuming that the path of 5 skills per lv continues to 80, but now goes from 7 acc to 6)

[Byrthnoth]

Soboro (D40, 450 delay) or the new Augmented 2-3 GKT (D44, 464 delay)?

Keep in mind that new GKT+Sword Strap = 450 delay, while Soboro generally spends its strap on Axe or Platinum +1 or something.

[Nameless]

Okay, can remove 1469 from the running immediately because the delay difference between it and Redemption ~equals or beats the 5% DA alone before you consider base D difference.

OaT vs Redemption, rough math (not accounting for possibility of Sword Strap, or TP overflow or anything painful like that -- using rough fSTR value of 8 and base damage added during WS = 40);

Delay difference: 4.3% DoT/WS frequency for Redemption
DMG difference: 40.7% stronger DoT/27.8% stronger WSs for Redemption
OaT with base DA only from Brutal: 38.1% DoT/WS frequency for OaT

Basically you're looking at a break-even scenario on a 50/50 TP/WS split (and assuming no liberal use of Souleater which strongly favours OaT, but even moreso Oa3x). The winner of these depends basically on what SE does to both of them. If Redemption is supposed to be this amazing crushingly powerful weapon, can probably assume it will end up the stronger of the two. Also less TP feed etc.

Would have to know hit distributions on Oa3x to make a judgment call on it.

The thing about 528 delay is that it is much easier to do a 5 hit build in the future when we find out how to get those STP gears. However, WSing frequently under high haste situation does have a downside in that each WS there is a clear delay before your next swing starts to tick. And when under high haste situation, those delay become bigger.

Assuming a 2 sec delay after you WS before your next round starts to tick, and under 50% haste, a 528 delay scythe should take 22 sec to WS, and that 2 sec delay is 8.3% of your WS cycle. When under 0% haste, it will take 44 sec to WS, and that 2 sec delay is only 4.5% of your WS cycle. In other words, when under high haste situation, WSing frequently is counterproductive in the same sense that you don't use boost during hundred fist.

The theory still needs to be tested further tho.

[CDF]

JA delay testing

WSing is counterproductive if you would do more damage auto-attacking in ~2 seconds than you would using a WS.

[solanis]

Vengeance doesn't belong in that list, it should be a Maleficence too. So it is actually 82 damage 528 delay OAT. That brings the OAT up to be the clear lead, since now redemption is only +34.5% in the TP phase from damage.

That's the verthandi path, isn't it? I had been hoping to avoid that misery, oh well. Sounds like it's best to make both a redemption and the OAT maleficence?

[Nameless]

JA delay testing

WSing is counterproductive if you would do more damage auto-attacking in ~2 seconds than you would using a WS.

While your WS is going to do more than you can autoattack in 2 sec, you are comparing this Weapon which frequently eat that 2 second delay to a weapon with higher dmg that isn't subject to those delay as often. This in other words decreases the expected WS frequency of the OAT weapons and making them slightly overrated when doing paper math.

528 delay under 50% haste with OAT weapon average 5 hits in 15.7 sec, adding 2 sec to the cycle is 17.7, so essentially you are spending 88.7% of your time TPing and 11.3% of your time wasting away. 528 delay under 50% with a normal weapon average 5 hits in 22 sec, adding 2 sec to the cycle is 24 sec. So you are spending 91.7% of your time TPing and 8.3% of your time wasting away. The higher the haste, the higher % of the time you are wasting away if you always WS right away at 100%.

So yea, this can't really be ignored when comparing the OAT and the max damage weapons.

PS: I am a big time OAT supporter as I have always laughed at those who took the max damage path so it is not like I want to put the OAT weapons down. It is however, sad to see that the max dmg weapons, which requires much less work than the OAT, is currently getting the pretty final skin. While I still believe the next two addons will introduce the final skin of the OAT line, it almost seems like a slap in the face to see the slackers getting the better end of it for now.

[CDF]

While your WS is going to do more than you can autoattack in 2 sec, you are comparing this Weapon which frequently eat that 2 second delay to a weapon with higher dmg that isn't subject to those delay as often. This in other words decreases the expected WS frequency of the OAT weapons and making them slightly overrated when doing paper math.
So yea, this can't really be ignored when comparing the OAT and the max damage weapons

I agree with this completely. I meant counterproductive in terms of loss of damage potential as opposed to loss relative to an unattainable ideal.

[Nameless]

Understood ^^

[ronin sparthos]

Has anyone even found out how to get the items for the Empyreal weapons yet?

We know they likely come from Abyssea which means that it'll likely take a person a long time to get the number of items needed to obtain the final form weapons. However to say that the max DMG path is easier than the OAT path at this point is jumping the gun a bit?

T2/3 VNMs will get easier as people hit 80 and granted by how little time you get in Abyssea, it could take a while to get the items needed to complete a single Empyreal.

[Deader2818]

Has anyone tested if Hecate's Cape or a +5 INT Cape is better for TV Nukes? On TIV nukes them seemed to do about the same dmg.

[Mercilessturtle]

T2/3 VNMs will get easier as people hit 80 and granted by how little time you get in Abyssea, it could take a while to get the items needed to complete a single Empyreal.

Getting the items from t3s isn't harder than other options because vnms are hard, it is because you have to spend so long upgrading abyssites to do it. Being level 80 won't make them upgrade any faster. And the OAT upgrade path needs stuff from abyssea too.

[Xno Kappa]

Perle Hauberk worth selling hauby+1 with a typical DRK TP set?

[JustaWAR]

My math for the magian GAxes says that with less than 9STP, the OAT one wins. and with more, the high DMG one wins. So it's situational based on sub I guess. Cana nyone confirm this?

[Gredival]

Parazonium, DMG 20, Delay 211

Magian Augment 1: Occasionally attacks 2-3 times
Magian Augment 2: DMG+13, Occasionally attacks twice


(Offhand obviously)

[stamos]

Would 89 dmg gkatana with 6 str/20 attack beat a 77 base dmg hagun!!?

[Xajii]

Perle Hauberk worth selling hauby+1 with a typical DRK TP set?

What do you WS in?

8 STR 4 DEX 8 Acc 8 Atk 2 Crit
vs
6 STR 6 DEX 12 Acc 12 ATK,

loss of 4 ACC 2 DEX and 4 ATK to gain 2 STR 2 Crit... I'd say no, but it kinda depends on your weapon and other stuff like that. 2% Crit just doesn't seem like that much to me >.> I could be wrong.