What's Better?

[Onorgul]

Because at that point you're not using the full 2% of the gloves, only 1.36%, and it reduces their value for the purpose of the comparison sigificantly. If you're at 24% haste and adding the Aurore Gloves then you need to use 2/3 of the values I listed for the haste improvements, which easily drops it well below the value of OKote (though not accounting for the +4 str, as the requested comparison was the 20 att vs 2% haste).

To get the full value of the haste you need a slightly more limited gear set, and thus I assumed Brown Belt, as that's the most likely difference.

Point taken. Accuracy permitting (don't have Justice or Faith Torque yet, for reference), should I be using Tiercel Necklace, then? I'd sort of assumed so, but have been out working on Trials and haven't been in an XP party yet.

[Motenten]

Requim: You're overestimating the value of haste in terms of its net effect for combined melee and weaponskill (though it doesn't really change your final conclusions, as the reduced difference in attack plus the +1 fStr weight things more in Aurore's favor).

Haste doesn't impact JA/WS delays, but those delays are intrinsic to your total damage. Boost+WS (stacked) is 180 delay that needs to be factored in. However the rate that it needs to be factored in depends on how how much time there is between weaponskills, which is dependant on weapon delay, Store TP and multi-attack rates.

Suppose you're using Destroyers and taking 8 rounds per weaponskill. 348*8 = 2,784. So a Boost+WS needs to be inserted in every (unmodified) 2,784 delay.

With, for example, 66% haste, total melee+JA/WS delay is 1127. With 68% haste, total is 1071. Effective improvement is 5.23%, not 6.25%.

The lower the total unhasted delay between weaponskills (ie: high Store TP, or high multi-attack rates), the less relative value haste has. Taking an arbitary additional example, if you wanted to compare 66% haste with 68% haste while using OA2-3 Footwork that weaponskilled every 3 rounds, 2% haste would be worth 4.49% (though you'd actually probably end up more towards the 4.96% you'd get for not using Boost, since the 3-round delay is less than Boost's recast with that much haste).


Brythnoth: I need to look at the base numbers again to form a proper response. Will get back to you in a bit.

[niwaar]

Trying to figure out Ninja weapons at 80...

I am wondering what people are thinking is the best Main/Off setup at 80.

I am working on the DMG weapon but not being in having an LS that is routinely killing VNM at a time I am available is hampering that process.

The STP katana is almost done, but is it worth it? Basically with my setup its going to turn 4.7 tp a hit to 5 tp a hit. Taking away 2 hits from the build is nice, but im not sure if that brings it above other katanas.

I am at the point in the Elemental to choose between STR/Attack or Dex/Accuracy. Which is better? Is it worth it even to use either one over other available weapons? ie, if they arent better than the others then i will make the Agi/Evasion katana instead.

Right now Im using Sen/Fudo (When I came back I didnt have the IN for Perdu and now that I am do... Im wondering if its worth buying still over one of more of these katanas.)

[Cream Soda]

Most common scenario is okote vs aurore gloves for BB-less monks. If people with BBs don't wear that 1% haste neck, sacrificing even more attack gloves for haste gloves seems silly.

Don't get yourself confused here. That's people w/ 25% haste not wearing that neck because it only gains .39% haste since mnk's 25 haste is .39 away from actual cap.

This is different, if he can fully use both points of haste in the gloves.

[Dakana]

What's better for an 80 pup with full h2h merits on a Stringing Pummel WS

A. Faith Torque
B. Sea Gorget
C. Other

[Hank]

I've tried to wrap my brain around it but it doesn't think no good:

Hagun, Pole Grip, Lightning Bow
Walah, Justice T, Brutal, Bushi
Haubs, Dusks Glo,Rajasd, Tore
Forag, Swift Balt, Byakk, Usuka

OR

Keitono, Sword, Lightning
Walah, Justice T, Brutal, Bushi
Haubs, Dusks Glo,Rajasd, Tore
Forag, Swift Balt, Byakk, Fumas

SO: Hagun, DA +2%, Acc/Att+7 VERSUS Keit, Delay -3% (but not really. would be the same delay), Haste +1%

[Foldypaws]

Probably been asked before but: Drakesbane and Sonic Thrust. (NQ) Heca or Ares legs?

[Ocara]

I've tried to wrap my brain around it but it doesn't think no good:

Hagun, Pole Grip, Lightning Bow
Walah, Justice T, Brutal, Bushi
Haubs, Dusks Glo,Rajasd, Tore
Forag, Swift Balt, Byakk, Usuka

OR

Keitono, Sword, Lightning
Walah, Justice T, Brutal, Bushi
Haubs, Dusks Glo,Rajasd, Tore
Forag, Swift Balt, Byakk, Fumas

SO: Hagun, DA +2%, Acc/Att+7 VERSUS Keit, Delay -3% (but not really. would be the same delay), Haste +1%

If you some reason need 7 acc to cap acc for gkatana with pizza, then the first, else the second.

[Ezekial]

Faith Torque
Marksmanship +7

or

Arctier's Torque
AGI+6 Ranged Accuracy+6

What's better overall?

[Motenten]

Brythnoth:

No level correction, varying mob defense:

400 att vs 500 def; add 20 att = 0.8 to 0.84 cRatio, +5%
400 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.0 to 1.05 cRatio, +5%
400 att vs 300 def; add 20 att = 1.33 to 1.4 cRatio, +5%

No level correction, varying player attack:

300 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 0.75 to 0.80 cRatio, +6.67%
400 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.0 to 1.05 cRatio, +5%
500 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.25 to 1.3 cRatio, +4%
600 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.5 to 1.55 cRatio, +3.33%


0.25 level correction, varying mob defense:

400 att vs 500 def; add 20 att = 0.55 to 0.59 cRatio, +7.27%
400 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 0.75 to 0.8 cRatio, +6.67%
400 att vs 300 def; add 20 att = 1.083 to 1.15 cRatio, +6.15%

0.25 level correction, varying player attack:

300 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 0.50 to 0.55 cRatio, +10%
400 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 0.75 to 0.80 cRatio, +6.67%
500 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.00 to 1.05 cRatio, +5%
600 att vs 400 def; add 20 att = 1.25 to 1.30 cRatio, +4%


So, as player attack goes up, additional attack becomes less valuable (rapidly at low attacks, more slowly as base attack climbs). However as mob defense goes down, the value of additional attack remains the same if there is no level correction, or declines slowly if there is level correction.

So, my numbers using declining mob defense is an incomplete comparison. However it's not really accurate to say that the value of attack varies with pDif. It depends on which portion of the equation is changing, and whether level correction is involved. Level correction only slides the scale if the attack side is changing, but also causes actual reduction in value if it's the defense side that's changing.

[Greatguardian]

For COR Melee TP at 80, sub RNG or WAR single weild Joyeuse with Martial Gun:

Full Aurore including set bonus of STP+8

vs.

Walahra Turban, Aurore Doublet, Dusk Gloves NQ, Aurore Brais, Aurore Gaiters.

0 Sword merits, other relevant TP gear includes Sharpeye mantle, Swift belt, NQ Sniper, Rajas, Brutal, Suppa, PCC

Bump. Basically:

Store TP +8, Dex+4, Acc+2 (from dex), Str+4 vs Attack +4, Haste+2%

Taking into account the fact that COR's primary mode of damage is WS.

[Arnavel]

Hi guys, general question on tp build, would it be worthwhile with full perle set on sam with full STP merits. (wont be getting byakko / usu anytime soon)

Keitonotachi (464 Delay, 91 DMG, 5stp)
Rose Strap
Smart Grenade
Turban
Chiv Chain
Bushinomimi
Brutal Earring
Hauby
Dusk Gloves
Raja Ring
Ecphoria Ring
Foragers Mantle
Swift Belt
Blitzer Poleyn (3 haste 7 acc)
Fuma Sunate

Also have askar body available, dont have gil for things like black / white tathlum.

Thanks

Have just tried to work out what stp was needed for 6hit on full perle and 464 delay using FFXI calc but number seemed way too low to be right :s.

Would lose 1 haste, but unsure if it's worth the additional bonus', until byakkos anyway

[seiji]

no merit: need both torque and hachi to get+1 dmg from skill
full merit :any one is +1 dmg , both are +2

poise shoes+ BH+BB
-aurore gloves+hachimaki (24 haste+1dmg+4str (1fstr?))
or
-aurore beret+ bkote(26 haste)

till someone find ocelot gloves

[gozaimasu]

Warwolf belt or Aristo belt(CHR+8 ) for Dancing Edge?

[Ocara]

Have just tried to work out what stp was needed for 6hit on full perle and 464 delay using FFXI calc but number seemed way too low to be right :s.

Would lose 1 haste, but unsure if it's worth the additional bonus', until byakkos anyway

That gkatana's stp + rajas + full merits + brutal + sword strap (bringing it to 450) is a 6 hit. Using rose strap with a 464 delay is basically just slowing you down.

[Eole]

@Arnavel

With full merits and pole grip 3 stp equiped for every melee hit and 0 stp on weaponskills or 2 stp equiped for every melee hit and 1 stp on weaponskills.

=> the GTK covers it all up.

With full merits and sword strap 11 stp for every melee hit and 9 stp on weaponskills (gtk+rajas+brutal) or 12 stp (usukane/askar) for every melee hit and 0 stp on weaponskills.

source: http://evileden.com/tp/

Perle set is an option in your case anyway.

[requim]

Nope. Increasing attack and lowering defense accomplish the same end result: increasing pDIF. Increasing pDIF has decreasing returns; contrast adding 18 attack against a mob with 400 defense, then 358 defense, then 340 defense (normal, +dia II, +level 1 box step).

The ratios between the two would be identical (since the defense would be a canceled out denominator), but wouldn't the actual change in pDIF be greater? If you decrease the attack necessary to cap pDIF it makes all the attack you had in a sense more valuable. Isn't that basically just the extension of why defense down is better because it requires less attack to cap pDIF as opposed to increasing amounts of attack?

Don't get yourself confused here. That's people w/ 25% haste not wearing that neck because it only gains .39% haste since mnk's 25 haste is .39 away from actual cap.

My point exactly: if someone who has black belt (~24.61% haste) doesn't use tiercel, they definitely wouldn't use aurore gloves over o/b kotes.

However, if he were using usu over fuma he would actually be 23.63% haste though that becomes more iffy as to whether what combo of usu, fumas, aurore gloves, and o/k/hachi kotes he would want to use, which is more of a pain to calculate.

Warwolf belt or Aristo belt(CHR+8 ) for Dancing Edge?

DE is 40% CHR, 30% DEX, and "25%" fSTR (which has a max). Assuming you DE without SA/TA, you're getting 3.2 base damage from 8 CHR or w/warwolf 1.5 from DEX and 1.25 fSTR (+2.5 acc/atk). So unless you're fighting things where your accuracy and attack would be capped, warwolf would be better.

[Logiks]

5/5 STP

Kurodachi/???/Tiphia
Walmart/pcc/Wyvern/Brutal
Haub+1/Dusk/Tor/Rajas
Foragers/Swift/Byakkos/Usu

DMG68 D464 OAT Kuro. Pole or Sword Grip? I'd assume Sword but I'm not entirely sure.

[lolwut]

Bump. Basically:

Store TP +8, Dex+4, Acc+2 (from dex), Str+4 vs Attack +4, Haste+2%

Taking into account the fact that COR's primary mode of damage is WS.

I know it's not what you're asking per se, but Cobra Harness is +6 stp and more acc than Aurore body. It'll drop the same hit you'd get from the +8 stp without dropping the haste.

Considering the real comparison you have up there is whether the 2 haste beats dropping a hit from the 8 stp, I wanted to point out an easy to obtain way to do both without losing anything.

[Francisco]

Does anyone have the "Haste" vs "Hit Rate" chart?

A newer MNK in my LS was asking me about gear choices, and he doesn't have a lot of Haste / big ACC gear at the moment.

Obviously your first priority should be to maintain a certain hit rate, then add Haste, then build your hit rate higher - but I'm not sure what the thresholds are for when Haste becomes more effective than Acc.

For instance:

25% Haste at 50% Hit Rate is poor.

95% Hit Rate at 0% Haste is better.

But what's better? 75% Hit Rate with 25% Haste, or 90% Hit Rate with 13% Haste?

Also, I know "pizza and haste" is the answer - but I'm mostly just looking for the general purpose chart. Can't really go off of my experiences leveling MNK, since I leveled it pre-Usukane, pre-pizza, pre-Turban... during the "eat meat, wear ACC" era.

(And I TP'd in like +55 STR...)