What's Better?

[seiji]

Keitonotachi 5 Hit TP
Keitonotachi 5 Hit WS

Opinions please ?

white thatlum in TP allow osode in ws

[Eole]

white thatlum in TP allow osode in ws

Excellent! Thanks I didn't think about it :D

[requim]

Mirke with accuracy and STP can be more useful than acc/atk were you to be going for a footwork build, however, cobra unit harness is 11 accuracy and 6 STP so you could just campaign for that and save your augments for either a normal melee build or a WS.

Wouldn't swapping out white tathlum, pole grip, and e. ring for rose strap + thew bomblet/accuracy ammo and a better second ring net you better damage? Also until you get the JSE neck (seems to be found, unsure its drop rate), you could also replace it with justice/pcc+ new ring with rose strap and still maintain the same amount of STP.

Would pole grip and white tathlum be better than rose strap and either an accuracy ammo or a thew bomblet? You could also swap out E. ring for something better

[Devinry]

I'd like some input/advice on my 5-hit Keitonotachi build. This is using what I have available to me. Having 8/8 GKT merits and no Usu body, opting for Marinara Pizza +1 allows me enough acc. to maintain Askar Korazin in tp phase.

TP build: +30 sTP in gear, 20.1 per hit
Keitonachi (5), Rose Strap (4), White Tahtlum (2)
Walahra, J. Torque, Brutal (1), Merman's
Askar Korazin (5), Dusk +1, Ecphoria (1), Rajas (5)
Cuchulain's, Velocious, Byakko's, Usukane (7)

WS: +27 sTP, 19.7 per hit
Keitonachi (5), Rose Strap (4), White Tahtlum (2)
Gnadbohd's, Gorget, Brutal (1), Triumph +1
Hachiman (6), Alky's, Triumph, Rajas (5)
Forager/Smilo+1, Warwolf, Myochin +1 (4), Perle

Opinions on how this looks? No haste loss on tp build (aside from possible 3% haste feet possible with Keitonachi). I lose out on a few STR since I can't use a full WS swap without losing 5-hit, but hopefully it plays out to be more beneficial then the normal 6-hit. Combination of Kirin's Osode and Hachiman feet would yield a net loss compared to Hachiman Domaru and Perle feet, so I opted for Domaruuu. Tried to squeeze in Threw Bomblet in there but moving sTP elsewhere just yielded in net loss. Ecphoria's is pretty lol so I was thinking of trying for Attila's with an acc+ or str+ augment and just TP in that so I could make use of Sniper's +1 at least.

Let me know if I missed any possible upgrades. Please don't mention Usukane Haramaki. Thanks!

I'm also very interested in this. Kinda freaked me out because I was just about to post almost this identical question. (For those of us not yet blessed with Usu body, Goading belt, and Unkai nodowa)

[Eole]

Wouldn't swapping out white tathlum, pole grip, and e. ring for rose strap + thew bomblet/accuracy ammo and a better second ring net you better damage? Also until you get the JSE neck (seems to be found, unsure its drop rate), you could also replace it with justice/pcc+ new ring with rose strap and still maintain the same amount of STP.

Would pole grip and white tathlum be better than rose strap and either an accuracy ammo or a thew bomblet? You could also swap out E. ring for something better

You can do Thew Bomblet/Justice Torque if you use Rose Strap.

If by new ring you're talking about "STR-4 DEX-4 Store TP+4" I'd rather not use this.

Ecphoria Ring is required, I build these sets for you to see.

TP Alt
WS Alt

You can keep +2%DA and Thew Bomblet on both TP and WS if you WS with Usukane Haramaki but you can't have Justice Torque, you'd have to use Unkai Nodowa.

TP Alt2
WS Alt2

If we compare previous sets with these alts, we compare :

TP Phase :
Old = Double Attack +2%
Alt = STR+2 Attack+10 Attack+7
Alt2 = STR+2 Attack+10 Double Attack +2%

WS Phase
Old = Double Attack +2%
Alt = No gain
Alt2 = Double Attack+2% STR-2 Triple Attack-1% etc..

I can't really decide between Alt and Alt2 tho.

[Ayn]

Profound apologies if this has been asked, but for DRK using Catastrophe:

Belt 1: +6 STR +6 INT + 6 Acc
versus
Belt 2: +15 Acc + 15 attack +1% DA.

Which is likely to win? #2 seems like a winner for Guillotine of course, #2 for anything with high acc. Not sure otherwise.

[buddha_masta]

Eole, I would go with Alt 2 as I'm pretty sure the benefit of 2% DA will outweigh loss of downgrading from Justice to Unkai Nodawa (if acc is still capped).

I'm also very interested in this. Kinda freaked me out because I was just about to post almost this identical question. (For those of us not yet blessed with Usu body, Goading belt, and Unkai nodowa)

For easier comparison's sake, FFXIAH links. I didn't want to post them before since sTP numbers for Rajas aren't calculated accurately.

TP +30 sTP: http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=167425
WS +27 sTP: http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=167429

To reiterate, no Usukane Haramaki yet and I live in the here and the now so don't like to add in 'future wish items.' Also prefer not to aim for Goalding since I have V. Belt. If I can add Unkai to tp phase I think I can use a full WS swap, sans Rose Strap and Myn. Haidate +1. Anyways, opinions plz thx.

[requim]

Sorry, by new ring I meant just a better ring than e.ring, though wasn't sure what was better amongst 7 accuracy rings or that VNM STR/DEX ring, or anything I may have missed.

White/pole/e.ring for rose/thew/toreadors would net your 2str, 8atk (9.5), 3 accuracy, 1 STP for 2% DA for TP. If accuracy were capped you could use strigoi ring for a total net change of 2fstr, which I'm almost positive it would out do 2% DA.

The other option you could consider is swapping out e.ring for hachi boots on WS, however, the comparison between 3 acc tp vs 3 str WS is a bit more of a pain to calculate out. But between rose grip and potentially using hachi boots you could likely remove a lot of other STP since that's already another 9-10 STP during WS you hadn't planned on, which could easily let you using justice torque or PCC etc.

Hoard ring is garbage unless it's vital for a 5 hit for like DRK since it lacks many STP options.

[Devinry]

The sets I'm considering at the moment are:

TP

Keitonotachi(5)|Rose(4)||W.Tath(2)
Turban|PCC|Brutal(1)|Bushi
Askar(5)|Dusk|Rajas(5)|Sniper+1
Cuch|Swift|Byakko's|Usu(7)

WS

Keitonotachi(5)|Rose(4)||Thew
Myo+1|Gorget|Brutal(1)|Bushi
Hachi(6)|Alky|Rajas(5)|Flame
Cuch|Warwolf|Myo+1|Hachi(5)

Should give me 20/swing during TP and 20 return from WS. Any swaps I could/should make to improve this that are within the realm of immediate possibility (no usu body, no hq hachiman, etc)?

[Rionel]

The Occ. Atks 2~3 Club VS the Occ. Atks Twice Club from Magians.

Occ. Atks 2~3 a clear winner?

[Mercilessturtle]

Given that dnc is limited in how much TP we can spend per minute because of the 8 second waltz timer, what's the best way to improve damage output? Just aim for as much TP as I can get and use it to WS, or use daggers with better dps that give me just as much TP as I need to spam waltz and keep up samba and steps? Unless I am doing something horribly wrong, with dual wield 4 at 80 just any old pair of 190 delay daggers should let a dnc/sam spam waltz 3 nonstop with haste, samba and double marches?

I was in fact doing something horribly wrong, I forgot to account for JA delay which eats a ton of time. Assuming a worst case scenario there's 7.5 waltes, 4 steps, 2 reverses, 3 violents, half a samba, and 1/3 of a meditate and no foot rise each minute which only leaves 24.6 seconds/minute of actually attacking. Gain from reverse should be 36 on one and 48 on the other for +84, 20/minute from med and 13/minute from NFR. I spent 432.5 tp per minute(don't have -5 waltz cost pants). So all together I need to gain (432.5-84-20-13)/24.6 = 12.8 tp/sec.

So assuming 68% haste and no suppa for now, pretty much the only dagger combos that can keep up are STP/Oa3 and OaT/Oa3?

[*Blaize*]

Until OAT, for Magian Polearm with D98 STR+6 Atk+20 Delay 480, with /SAM + Aurum Cuirass + Rajas + Brutal I'm 1 STP off for a 6hit.

Pole Grip + Chiv Chain
or
Rose Strap + PCC?

[requim]

Until OAT, for Magian Polearm with D98 STR+6 Atk+20 Delay 480, with /SAM + Aurum Cuirass + Rajas + Brutal I'm 1 STP off for a 6hit.

Pole Grip + Chiv Chain
or
Rose Strap + PCC?

Are you not WSing in aurum? Are you not using drakesbane?

You don't need a 6 true hit with a multihit WS. Sure, 16.6 TP ends up being ~0.4 TP short...which means you have to land 2 hits on your WS <_<;

You can bare minimum get by with 27 STP (12 from gear) to keep a hit hit with at least a 2 hit WS return. 11 or less requires you to have four hit returns.

And all that is assuming you're not better off going for Stingray (or another 492 polearm) with full Perle (or whatever other gear not including aurum body).

As far as ease in getting a temporary weapon you plan to replace, stingray >>>>> fire

[*Blaize*]

Are you not WSing in aurum? Are you not using drakesbane?

You don't need a 6 true hit with a multihit WS. Sure, 16.6 TP ends up being ~0.4 TP short...which means you have to land 2 hits on your WS <_<;

You can bare minimum get by with 27 STP (12 from gear) to keep a hit hit with at least a 2 hit WS return. 11 or less requires you to have four hit returns.

And all that is assuming you're not better off going for Stingray (or another 492 polearm) with full Perle (or whatever other gear not including aurum body).

As far as ease in getting a temporary weapon you plan to replace, stingray >>>>> fire

Didn't even look at that Stingray until now, but I was mainly looking for a 6hit that didn't rely on WS hits (even though DRG gets jumps and blahblahblah) cuz we all love the random number generator. Either way, thanks for that, looks way easier than mobs under Fireday/weather <_<

[Howard Roark]

so when cap was 75 full usu mnk's were best off with white tathlum, rajas ring brutal and I think even chiv chain?

I'm 4/5 usu, need handsand looking at new gear, and with faith torque bumping me up over 320 skill I kinda dont want to ditch it for chiv chain

what's best neck/ammo combo for 80 mnk 8/8 h2h assuming full usu?
- chiv chain/white tath?
- faith/thew bomblet(or black tath)
- ???


I guess OAT 2-3 h2h complicates things since I should probably be using Kyoshu Kyahan or Poise Shoes if I'm breaking added haste of full usu

[Tortalius]

Ammet+1 vs sharpeye mantle.

using

W.Turb/Love/Suppa/Brutal
Rap/Dusk/Rajas/Ulth
Back/Swift/Aurore/Enki or Aurore

[Aero]

Ammet+1 vs sharpeye mantle.

using

W.Turb/Love/Suppa/Brutal
Rap/Dusk/Rajas/Ulth
Back/Swift/Aurore/Enki or Aurore

Need ACC? Wear sharpeye. If not use Amemet.

[chazzyphizzle]

Anybody do any testing on Cavaros mantle? Just picked one up, wondering if it'd be worth it for Raging Rush, would probably definitely be worth it to stack that mantle and brave grip for MS zerg wouldn't it?

[Eole]

White/pole/e.ring for rose/thew/toreadors would net your 2str, 8atk (9.5), 3 accuracy, 1 STP for 2% DA for TP. If accuracy were capped you could use strigoi ring for a total net change of 2fstr, which I'm almost positive it would out do 2% DA.

The other option you could consider is swapping out e.ring for hachi boots on WS, however, the comparison between 3 acc tp vs 3 str WS is a bit more of a pain to calculate out. But between rose grip and potentially using hachi boots you could likely remove a lot of other STP since that's already another 9-10 STP during WS you hadn't planned on, which could easily let you using justice torque or PCC etc.

Again, when I did the calculations yesterday it appeared to me that it wasn't possible to remove the Ecphoria Ring, unless with the use of Unkai Nodowa.

I'm against Hachiman Sune-Ate (even +1) now that we gained Perle Solerets, and in the end WSing in Usukane Haramaki would be better because it'd give more STR and Store TP.

I think the following are close to what you are refering to, requim.

Keitonotachi TP Alt3 + Keitonotachi WS Alt2

EDIT:

I didn't notice the WS set I proposed was using Pole Grip; It has to be Rose Strap since the TP Build uses it.

This could mean an excess in Store TP on WS Phase and you might think of replacing Usukane Haramaki by Nocturnus/Osode but you can't.
It will only give you a 18.3 TP Return and the TP set is expecting at least 18.4 from WS Hit.

So have no 2%DA and STR-2 on WS.
While we can use any ring we want on TP Phase, but no Torque.

It's not bad like this, might be one of the best options for this Weapon.

[Yugl]

Didn't even look at that Stingray until now, but I was mainly looking for a 6hit that didn't rely on WS hits (even though DRG gets jumps and blahblahblah) cuz we all love the random number generator. Either way, thanks for that, looks way easier than mobs under Fireday/weather <_<

Stingray with sTP8 will give you a true 6-hit build in combination with 3sTP (Rajas will be enough to cover you or Brutal + any 2sTP piece). It's also a nice fix for Perle since it means you can spare your Pole Grip/Thew Bomblet from removal. I personally did the 101 DMG Stingray since it looks like it may have WS+10% in the future. However, the sTP lance is very nice for the present situation since Perle is top tier gear for DRG (Unless you have a haste body; I'm not sure about Askar/Pole Grip/Thew Bomblet since I think I did the ATT portion incorrectly).