What's Better?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Well, Excaladin is going be slightly ahead of the curve when it comes to raw survivability, but the difference in damage output compared to a Apocalypse is going to apparent, and generally preferred.

Then there's always the fact that a tanking-DRK can 'zerg whenever its manageable for your healers.

[Humblejoe]

Idk dude, DRK doesn't wear enmity and that's his whole argument; PLD doesn't get enmity from Excalibur, therefore it cannot keep hate. I wish Sath would read this and ask who I'm referring to, since he was in an LS with him.

[Genrye]

Excal is bad, and you should feel bad. Joyeuse or you're doing it wrong.

[Genrye]

I'd default to trolling, but I'm not entirely sure with you.

Not at all, there really isnt a need for excal in my eyes. First off; currency is better spent else where. Secondly Atonement spam is all Paladin is good for now, and by good for I mean its the only place it has left, Paladin is useless. If you can TP on something, Drk, Sam, hell even war will tank it, stay alive, and do more damage than a paladin. If you cant engage it; Red mage or dark knight will hold hate better because they have more hate tools, and provide more uses to the alliance even in the tanking roll(stuns, sleeps, binds, absorbs).

That being said; its great in town.

[Darkmagi]

Ignoring the fact that PLD is not an optimal tank, Excalibur is superior to joyeuse. By how much and how useful compared to the cost isn't the issue. If someone is upgrading a relic it is going to be because they enjoy playing the job normally. Fact of the matter is any job that can pull hate and /nin can tank, if someone wants to be on a a job that isn't optimal but is getting the job done nonetheless I see no problem.

[Genrye]

Excalibur is superior to joyeuse.

This goes back to the HP proc not generating enmity and no 45% DA rating, Thus getting to your next atonement at half the speed of joyeuse.

The add effect is a 5% proc rate? that does, lets just give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a galka with 2k HP, 500 damage.

vs. a 45% Da rating on joyeuse to your next 750 atonement?

Tough call in my eyes.

[Darkmagi]

I don't know where the math is but I distinctly remember excalibur beating joyeuse by a pretty large amount a while back here.
Also holding hate without the extra enmity of joyeuse shouldn't be an issue any more than it already is with joyeuse.

[Fottiti]

I remember math putting Joyeuse within 10-20% of Excalibur. That said war drk or sam will do far more damage on anything you're meleeing and we've already established that the difference in survivability is negligable between the jobs with appropriate gear sets (which if you're spending money on a relic you should have).

[Genrye]

tl;dr: Dont upgrade excal, use the currency on Horn or gun.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Reading comprehension is cool. We've all already acknowledged that something like Apocalypse is generally money better spent in regard to tanking, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a exceptionally-geared Excaladin.

And IIRC, the difference was within 10%, in favor of Excal.

[Nightfyre]

Excal will hit for 0 less often if that's an issue, which would drastically reduce Joyeuse's TP generation advantage. Even if it doesn't you're hitting somewhat harder, may or may not balance out against more hits from Joyeuse but it could be another advantage.

[Krispy]

Excal > Joy :>

btw you won't hit 750 atonement on everything you fight.

[Meat]

apoc\brauva\amano>excal

[Nightfyre]

apoc\brauva\amano>excal

Eh...

[konoko]

You dont NEED a relic for anything, if you want it, and can afford it, go for it

[Genrye]

Horn > Gun > bow> buy your members kraken clubs with the gil you save > other relics

[requim]

If you can get a ridiculous more amount of accuracy for WS is it worth switching from sushi to pizza for a 5~6% change in hit rate (split is ~60TP/40WS)?

Given 25 ws acc anwig, virtuoso belt, etc I end up with more accuracy than I can replace with sizable stat/atk increases so wasn't sure if I should just stop using anwig (in place of stats) or swap food.

[Neosutra]

If you can get a ridiculous more amount of accuracy for WS is it worth switching from sushi to pizza for a 5~6% change in hit rate (split is ~60TP/40WS)?

Given 25 ws acc anwig, virtuoso belt, etc I end up with more accuracy than I can replace with sizable stat/atk increases so wasn't sure if I should just stop using anwig (in place of stats) or swap food.

If you truely need that much acc to cap out on what you are fighting, then stick with sushi. If sushi brings you to cap acc and that puts you waaaaay over the cap for acc in your WS build... use less acc in your WS build.

Make multiple WS builds Q.Q. Who has one WS build these days?

[requim]

The issue isn't a singular WS build (I have multiple) nor is it that I need that much accuracy to cap for WS.

The issue is that my best atk/str options all have a ton accuracy on them, so even when I am trying to max damage WS, my accuracy is capped for pizza or sushi.

The only options I see is either continue to overshoot accuracy for WS or to change food (taking a hit for TP, but still capped WS). What I am unsure about is whether or not 55 attack for TP and WS can overcome the 5~6% drop in TP hitrate (though still capped for WS).

[Neosutra]

The issue isn't a singular WS build (I have multiple) nor is it that I need that much accuracy to cap for WS.

The issue is that my best atk/str options all have a ton accuracy on them, so even when I am trying to max damage WS, my accuracy is capped for pizza or sushi.

The only options I see is either continue to overshoot accuracy for WS or to change food (taking a hit for TP, but still capped WS). What I am unsure about is whether or not 55 attack for TP and WS can overcome the 5~6% drop in TP hitrate (though still capped for WS).

Would help if you gave what job and gear you have. If those pieces are the best you have, you can probably swap out other spots.

Also, simple stuff like Virtuoso -> Warwolf belt, Acc rings -> Str (idk what you're using).

But to answer your question, no if you will lose 5-6% hit rate in your TP phase, it's not worth swapping to pizza over sushi.