What's Better?

[SephYuyX]

What is a tank set? JA/Cures/etc. and MDT sets are the only time you should be using IR head/body, or any of the set really. Full perle seems like the best pld tp gear if your lacking Homam/Ares body/stuff.

For when im /WAR and getting beat in my face, trying to survive by not dying as fast by using some -PDT in legs and feet. And yeah, im using perle for TP. AH PLD.

[Darkmagi]

darksteel harness/+1 and koeing head?

[Dathus]

THF WS: Gorget or Love Torque? Mandalic Stab, Shark Bite, Evisceration.

[azagarth]

I am having the hardest dang time deciding which wep to go after for my mnk and pup.

Ursine claws with 19dmg OAT or 0dmg 2-3 attack?

I know the 2-3 attack ones rock with footwork on mnk, but how much more do they do then the regular OAT? It would seem that OAT would be better all around wep? Or is it outdone easily by things like the 6 str 16 attack h2h?

Since I can only do one ursine claws I want it to be the best choice possible. Thanks!

[Norellicus]

If you need to cover MNK and PUP both, take 19 dmg OA2, the 0dmg OA3 loses out too much when you're actually using them as a fist weapon; only reason it retains any value for MNK is footwork, and the difference with footwork between OA2 and OA3 is negligible by current math.

[Onorgul]

and the difference with footwork between OA2 and OA3 is negligible by current math.

Not really true at all.

[Norellicus]

Yeah I think I got my wires crossed, looking again OA3 does have a pretty big lead with footwork, but loses out so much on h2h that the gains are lost; OA2 is strong in both modes (only 10% behind OA3 in footwork, and only just behind Verethregna (sp) in h2h).

[cdgreg]

What's better for landing slow on resistant mobs such as DI Alkalurops or Terra's? I'll extend the question, which would be better to cast with the hope of extending the duration of para II on various mobs Alkalurops or Aquilo's?

[AzazaelFenrir]

I gather that 5/5 perle is now the got to tp set for DRG (and maybe PLD?)

Which polearm is better the def down 15 or the STP 8?

Also what is the new tp set for PLD (if it isn't 5/5 perle).

[azagarth]

Yeah I think I got my wires crossed, looking again OA3 does have a pretty big lead with footwork, but loses out so much on h2h that the gains are lost; OA2 is strong in both modes (only 10% behind OA3 in footwork, and only just behind Verethregna (sp) in h2h).

10% is a pretty large hit though seeing as I wont ever be getting ver. or relic/mythic. Does the OA3 tripple kick? I heard somewhere with footwork max you can hit is twice. So I am a little confused lol.

Anyone know how these stack up for pup vs other options? My fear is that by doing OA3 they may quickly become trash in future updates as OAT keeps getting dmg upgrades. To many decisions! wish I could do both.

[Chen]

did SE release any abyssea polearms? looking for a quick fix on my fay until i get around to a magian

[Neosutra]

Yeah I think I got my wires crossed, looking again OA3 does have a pretty big lead with footwork, but loses out so much on h2h that the gains are lost; OA2 is strong in both modes (only 10% behind OA3 in footwork, and only just behind Verethregna (sp) in h2h).

Keep in mind it is highly unlikely SE meant for OA2-3 to work with footwork. That's a lot of work for something which will most likely be patched in the future.

[Nightfyre]

10% is a pretty large hit though seeing as I wont ever be getting ver. or relic/mythic. Does the OA3 tripple kick? I heard somewhere with footwork max you can hit is twice. So I am a little confused lol.

Anyone know how these stack up for pup vs other options? My fear is that by doing OA3 they may quickly become trash in future updates as OAT keeps getting dmg upgrades. To many decisions! wish I could do both.

The basic gist of it is that while you can only kick twice the DA rate with OA2-3 is much higher than with OAT. The long explanation is spoilered:

Spoiler: show

After reading about Ridillators(Ursine Claws w/ OA2-3) having such a higher proc rate on footwork than the expected 50%, I was very curious to figure out why. I'm pretty lazy and was hoping someone else would have done the testing to explain it, but after searching for a post about it and finding nothing, I spent all weekend doing tests myself.

For all my tests I used Fortifications attacking for at least 500 rounds. If a campaign battle ended before 500 attack rounds, I just did a full second round of campaign. Originally I was just going to parse normal fights, but quickly noticed in a short 50 rounds that a counter occurring in the same time frame as a kick was counted as an extra attack.

Test 1: Footwork w/ no weapon, no DA, no KA+gear, expected rate w/ 5/5 KA merits 17.5%; 72 extra attacks in 407 rounds, 17.69% DA rate. I didn't hit the 500 rounds i wanted per test, but Kick Attack rate w/ merits has been pretty well tested and I was really too lazy to do another campaign for 98 more sample rounds.

Test 2: Footwork w/ no weapon, mnk/war, brutal earring and melee hose, expected rate w/ KA merits 34.13%; 328 extra attacks in 748 rounds, 43.85% DA rate. After this test I spent awhile figuring out why just like OAT rate, DA effected footwork in some way differently then what was suspected.

I know with normal weapons attacks per round is DA% plus the remaining percentage multiplied by OAT%. H2H's multi attack order is;
Fist 1 punch, Fist 2 punch, Fist 1 chance of DA, Fist 2 chance of DA, Fist 1 OA2-3 chance, Fist 2 OA2-3 chance, Kick.

I theorized that footwork, probably not acting as intended uses the normal H2H coding to decide extra attacks. Under footwork the order of operations is;
Kick, (Fist 1) chance of DA, (Fist 2) chance of DA, (Fist 1) chance of OA2-3, (Fist 2) chance of OA2-3, chance of job ability kick attack.

Kick attack rate from abilties, merits, or gear work like DA in a sense, but don't get factored in twice because in a normal attack round you only can KA once, and only after all other attacks are decided.

Going back to test 2 where the results were not as expected and using the order of operations I theorized the footwork formula to be based on I got;
Expected rate 44%, tested rate 43.85%. These numbers seemed to match much more nicely and so I did my other 2 tests using my expected percentage instead of the normal expected percentage.

Test 3: Footwork w/ Ursine Claws(OA2-3) and KA merits only, expected rate 79.38%; 543 extra attacks in 686 rounds, 79.15% DA rate. Theorized footwork formula still seems to be working well.

Test 4: Footwork w/ Ursine Claws(OA2-3), mnk/war, brutal earring, melee hose and KA merits, expected rate 86%; 613 extra attacks in 712 rounds, 86.09%.

So I don't know if it's intentional or not, but I am pretty certain that under footwork DA and OAT are factored in twice. There may be some way different way footwork is computed but these numbers convinced me that this is how it works. I was hoping that the earlier reports were just wrong because after putting in 10hr days to finish Spharai as fast as I could I really didn't want to have marginally better damage output as someone who could make these.

Have fun making your footwork builds, and don't forget to keep a regular build too for when footwork gets dispelled. Now someone get me solid testing on Counter II that isn't against a mob that can itself counter please, I am done with trials and testing for awhile.

I'm inclined to agree with Neo in that this may not be working as intended. If so, the margin between OAT and OA2-3 under Footwork will be drastically reduced (eliminated?) should SE decide to adjust Footwork mechanics, at which time I would seriously consider OAT due to it being one of the best weapons for both Footwork up and down, allowing you to fulltime them rather than swapping weapons for each situation.

[Niiro]

Keep in mind it is highly unlikely SE meant for OA2-3 to work with footwork. That's a lot of work for something which will most likely be patched in the future.

Originally it didn't, they changed it so that it did.

That said I'm still getting STR/ATK taipan fangs, eggs, basket, etc.

[Neosutra]

Originally it didn't, they changed it so that it did.

That said I'm still getting STR/ATK taipan fangs, eggs, basket, etc.

OAT magians always worked with footwork, they just fixed it so it worked on both hands as well.

[Niiro]

Really? I thought they enabled it to work with FW at the same time they fixed the both hands issue.

Nvm then, but it's worth considering that unless they plan to release better and better kick boots in the future, OA2+FW will fall behind with improvements to H2H weapon DMG in the future.

[Eleven19]

For warrior GA on TotM, the Steel Cyclone+10% DMG+12 or sTP+6 DMG+11? Leaning towards the sTP at the end but I wanted to make sure that DMG+1 didn't influence anything.

[Darkmagi]

If it's been like this since Magian came out I doubt it's unintentional. Keep in mind that it will be limited by new kick shoe upgrades and the fact of h2h weapons likely getting more frequent damage upgrades.

[Tsuko_Asura]

"Its been like that forever" is never going to be a good reason to believe it will stay.

[Onorgul]

How about "It's the only thing that has actually pushed us to use Footwork"? With out my OA3 Ursine Claws, Footwork would still be a shelved ability even with Poise Shoes taunting from the shadows. I find it a bit dubious to imagine that SE, who we know reads our forums, would not have fixed this when we first started talking about it with Wargfangs months ago.