What's Better?

[Deader2818]

Im sure im doing it wrong but I was going to use 5 hit Keitonotachi and use Carbo to get 5 hit without having to lose STR in WS gear.

I figured I should be good with ACC on most things if not, I can change out Forgers for Cuch and Thew for Black Tathlum.

My TP set on sam has 430 acc without using cuch or black tathlum.

[circa]

While this thread is in a sam xhit build mode:

I recently just acquired usu body, and I'm looking to revise my 5hit Tomoe build.

Currently use polegrip/hauby+1/hachi hands/usufeet hands for tp, but I figure I can dump them for rose/usubody/dusk hands/usufeet now.

This essentially boils down to a grip and WS body question. Adding in the Rose strap, I would be able to Penta in Hauby +1 for the extra attack. If I use a pole grip, I will have to WS in usubody, to keep a true 5hit.

tl;dr: 2% DA (fulltime) > 12 attack (on Penta)?

Or is coming up with a true 5hit build relatively pointless since Feather Tickle is not a major factor anymore?

[Deader2818]

Usu body/feet/brutal/Rajas is what I use for Polearm to make 5 hit. I do WS in Usu feet but I would think as long as you land like, 3 hits you should be good to keep 5 hit.

[Clash Perez]

121.4375 delay (or 2.0 seconds to 100 TP) for Keitonotachi, and that's with sacrificing sub/ammo spot during TP phase for rose strap + white tathum (if you dont have Goadling belt), and several sacrifices during WS.

You can get 20% TP per hit with Usubody/feet, Rose Strap, Rajas, Brutal, Ecphoria. Lose out on 3 ACC at most with that switch, vice losing Thew or Black Tathlum.

Too bad WS gear doesn't have an easy remedy.

[Niiro]

There's also Unkai nodowa and goading belt deserves honorable mention, not exactly commonplace yet.

Both will free up limits on WS gear.

[Thalandor46]

For the purposes of DOT kiting, Helix merits or Modus Veritas merits?

[Neosutra]

There's also Unkai nodowa and goading belt deserves honorable mention, not exactly commonplace yet.

Both will free up limits on WS gear.

Right, but even if you dont have to give up the good stuff during TP/WS phase, Radennotachi gets TP faster than the 5 hit stp GK and does more DoT.

So it looks like Magian GKs go like this: (excluding Masamune):

High Base damage OAT -> Fire GK Hyogugusarinotachi (89 base damage/437 delay 6 str+20 att) -> Radennotachi (91 base damage/450 delay + sword strap) -> 91 base damage 464 delay 5 hit stp katana.

[Cyprias]

I honestly wouldn't go for the max damage GKT..... and, after the next update, it'll be gimp unless SE lowers the amount of carabosse gems needed.

I don't think it will be lowered because once the update hits, a higher level cap also hits, causing a larger frequency of Carabosse kills because of how much easier it will be killing that thing.

This is of course speculation, but it should be much easier with 10 additional levels.

[Byrthnoth]

Carabosse is already the easiest Empyreal item dropping NM to farm legitimately (not in Alliance XP) by far. A solid group should be able to pop out ~2 per Abyssea run assuming they don't have ass luck with key items. Another 10 levels will make her a joke.

Glavoid and Chloris? lol... good luck.

[fredjanx]

Right, but even if you dont have to give up the good stuff during TP/WS phase, Radennotachi gets TP faster than the 5 hit stp GK and does more DoT.

So it looks like Magian GKs go like this: (excluding Masamune):

High Base damage OAT -> Fire GK Hyogugusarinotachi (89 base damage/437 delay 6 str+20 att) -> Radennotachi (91 base damage/450 delay + sword strap) -> 91 base damage 464 delay 5 hit stp katana.

Kinda surprised no one mentions it, lol.
I'm actually looking forward to future magians, not because of empyreans, but because these elemental weapons will get even better.
At level 99, we might see a GKT with STR +10 and ATK +30.
edit: @Carabosse coment: Masamune being easier to "obtain" at level 90 will be irrelevant, because, well..... base Masamune is going to be gimp unless you do the trials to enhance it (which will most likely be equally as bad as this carabosse x50 gem trial)

[Deader2818]

So, seems like the idea of which is the best GKT to get changes a lot. Im already half way done with the STP gkt so ill try that out anyways but after that, should I just work on the high damage one and hope for the best with gems or should I work on a GKT that MIGHT be better down the road?

[Neosutra]

Kinda surprised no one mentions it, lol.
I'm actually looking forward to future magians, not because of empyreans, but because these elemental weapons will get even better.
At level 99, we might see a GKT with STR +10 and ATK +30.
edit: @Carabosse coment: Masamune being easier to "obtain" at level 90 will be irrelevant, because, well..... base Masamune is going to be gimp unless you do the trials to enhance it (which will most likely be equally as bad as this carabosse x50 gem trial)

Yep, that's actually my biggest dissapointment in Masamune. I know by the time I finish it, it will be trash again, and by the time I upgrade it again, the next version will be out.

All the while the Str GK just gets better and better while being vastly easier to get.

edit: Jornna

Unless you're planning on actually pursuing Masamune, get the Str one. The 5 hit falls behind both the str version and the high base damage radennotachi, and will only get better.

[Byrthnoth]

Yep, that's actually my biggest dissapointment in Masamune. I know by the time I finish it, it will be trash again, and by the time I upgrade it again, the next version will be out.

All the while the Str GK just gets better and better while being vastly easier to get.

However, the STR GKT will almost certain to be inferior to Masamune in the long run, so all time spent working on it is ultimately a waste if your goal is to be the best at 99.

If you are capable of working on/finishing Masamune, it makes the most sense to attempt to progress as far as you can along that path right now before it becomes obvious how good the Empyreans will be. The sooner you get through stages, the sooner you can move onto the next stage and the further behind you your competition becomes.

If the next quest is another "Collect 50 of ____ Ex item," people are going to have to start choosing between hoarding for the future (after they get their gems) and having inventory room. You get a good lead now, you could score a good lead collecting for the next stage, which would give you a lead on the final stage. People will be killing the NMs either way, and you could be the only one collecting those Ex items on your server if you blow through the first stage quickly.

[Neosutra]

Guess the right answer is: Do em both.

[Niiro]

Right, but even if you dont have to give up the good stuff during TP/WS phase, Radennotachi gets TP faster than the 5 hit stp GK and does more DoT.

I'm not sure how you're drawing the conclusion that a 6 hit radenno is out-TPing a 5 hit keito.

6 hit raden with sword strap is 436 delay.

436 * 5 = 2180 delay to 100 TP.

5 hit keito without sword strap is 464 delay.

464 * 4 = 1856 delay to 100 tp.

The haste values for both setups are pretty much equal, the only difference I can see is trading usu feet for fumas (a situational trade off at best).

I certainly agree that 5 hit keito isn't the best but I'm just wondering where you're getting the above conclusion from.

[Snprphnx]

Which is better,

Vali's Bow
DMG: 71 Delay: 490 STR +3 AGI +3
Ranged Accuracy +2 Ranged Attack +23

Vs

Bateleur
(Archery) All Races
DMG: 80 Delay: 524
Lv. 80 RNG
Str+6 R.Atk+16

Thanks in advance

[Neosutra]

I'm not sure how you're drawing the conclusion that a 6 hit radenno is out-TPing a 5 hit keito.

6 hit raden with sword strap is 436 delay.

436 * 5 = 2180 delay to 100 TP.

5 hit keito without sword strap is 464 delay.

464 * 4 = 1856 delay to 100 tp.

The haste values for both setups are pretty much equal, the only difference I can see is trading usu feet for fumas (a situational trade off at best).

I certainly agree that 5 hit keito isn't the best but I'm just wondering where you're getting the above conclusion from.

Ah you're correct, if you factor in the 1% haste loss, stp GK WSs 11% faster than radennotachi (not factoring in loss of pole strap/ammo). (About 15% faster if using same haste values).

With marches/haste/sambas/hasso, you reach 100 TP in 8.4 seconds with STP katana (22%haste), and 9.5 seconds with Radennotachi(23%haste). (unmerited haste samba)

But you're doing more DoT via the extra hit in each TP phase.

Looks like it is closer than I thought, but still think the Radennotachi or Fire GK pulls ahead.

[Niiro]

Ah you're correct, if you factor in the 1% haste loss, stp GK WSs 11% faster than radennotachi (not factoring in loss of pole strap/ammo). (About 15% faster if using same haste values).

With marches/haste/sambas/hasso, you reach 100 TP in 8.4 seconds with STP katana (22%haste), and 9.5 seconds with Radennotachi(23%haste).

But you're doing more DoT via the extra hit in each TP phase.

Looks like it is closer than I thought, but still think the Radennotachi or Fire GK pulls ahead.

I'm very split on what trials to do for SAM.

I wanna work on the atk/str one but good christ weather/day trials are a massive pain in the ass and much like the wamoura stage on my H2H path, the flan stage is going to be a brick wall.

It's gonna be a kick in the balls to finish one just to find out something way better on a totally different trial path open up in future updates.

If only scathacha wasn't so elusive could just try for that and wait and see -.-

[Draylo]

Eh flans aren't that bad. There's normally a lot of people on that trial that gather up on firesday to kill flans at the blm camp. When I did my str sword we had 18 people there killing flans.

[Neosutra]

I'm very split on what trials to do for SAM.

I wanna work on the atk/str one but good christ weather/day trials are a massive pain in the ass and much like the wamoura stage on my H2H path, the flan stage is going to be a brick wall.

It's gonna be a kick in the balls to finish one just to find out something way better on a totally different trial path open up in future updates.

If only scathacha wasn't so elusive could just try for that and wait and see -.-

I've been waiting for Scathacha to be found since the update .