Gunman kills several in Cumbria rampage

[Linliel]

I honestly bet if you'd grown up in a culture without guns, like, say, Australia, you'd have the same opinion as me (and the other non-Americans posting in this thread). Thus I'm willing to admit that the opposite is probably also true, and therefore that Americans are crazy ;D

It's ok I still <3 you though. Just please don't shoot me.

[Therin]

Nope, I don't think I would. Once I got older and mature enough to understand that I have a duty to protect myself and my family, and that law enforcement is great, but not always efficient and quick enough to be relied on when your life is on the line, I would see things exactly as I do now (and consequently would move to a country where I have that liberty as I do now).

Some U.S. states have an excellent concealed-carry program. In order to carry legally, you have to go through a fairly strict state-approved class (with a lot of focus on the use of deadly force and legal issues pertaining to carrying and using, when you can, when you can't, etc.), with handgun proficiency qualification included, and then are subject to a state and federal (FBI) background check, including a review of your medical/mental history, and fingerprinting. Concealed permit holders have historically been one of the lowest population segments statistically to be subject to criminal activities including violent crime and are typically some of the most responsible and respectful individuals around. The average person has a lot of unfounded, illogical fears about people who own or carry weapons and it's really a sad fact. It's the people who haven't jumped through all the legal hoops to carry guns that you should be worried about - in fact, I honestly believe that ALL countries should have legal provisions which allow their private citizens to own and carry, as long as they are as strict and selective as the system that we have in most U.S. states. You obviously don't want "mentally-defective" people or people who are irresponsible getting their hands on firearms but there's no reason someone who is of sound mind and legal intent shouldn't be allowed.

[Korietsu]

I honestly bet if you'd grown up in a culture without guns, like, say, Australia, you'd have the same opinion as me (and the other non-Americans posting in this thread). Thus I'm willing to admit that the opposite is probably also true, and therefore that Americans are crazy ;D

It's ok I still <3 you though. Just please don't shoot me.

I understand that your culture has an unfounded fear of firearms. Doesn't make me crazy, as I'm of sound mind and faculties to understand that a firearm is a tool, not a heat seeking baby killing, armor piercing, demon that goes off by itself. The fact that people thought your grandfather was crazy for keeping a piece of history and something that defended his life and his fellow man's life for the duration of his tour in WW2 crazy (if he did serve, which is what I took away from your post) shows that neither they, or your grandmother had the proper respect for what it stood for.

If you for one moment think that banning guns is for the best or owning one is insane because the world as a whole should be civilized enough to do it, you're being naïve about the world around you. Because someone will always be bigger and badder than you, and that gun is the great equalizer.

[Linliel]

Nope, I don't think I would. Once I got older and mature enough to understand that I have a duty to protect myself and my family, and that law enforcement is great, but not always efficient and quick enough to be relied on when your life is on the line, I would see things exactly as I do now (and consequently would move to a country where I have that liberty as I do now).

Nope, I bet you wouldn't. Partly because you wouldn't have the whole cultural background you have now. You just can't see it because you're not stepping outside your cultural box ;D You should try living outside America for a while!

[Linliel]

The fact that people thought your grandfather was crazy for keeping a piece of history and something that defended his life and his fellow man's life for the duration of his tour in WW2 crazy (if he did serve, which is what I took away from your post) shows that neither they, or your grandmother had the proper respect for what it stood for.

They had plenty of respect for what he did (my grandmother served as well), but they didn't need a weapon to show it. WW2 rifles were actually included in a gun amnesty a few years after my grandfather died, and there was a bit of fuss about the fact that they were included, but then they were allowed to be kept as long as they were licensed, locked up, and there was no ammo in the house, or something like that, or they had to be surrendered in the amnesty. A lot were surrendered voluntarily.

[Korietsu]

They had plenty of respect for what he did (my grandmother served as well), but they didn't need a weapon to show it. WW2 rifles were actually included in a gun amnesty a few years after my grandfather died, and there was a bit of fuss about the fact that they were included, but then they were allowed to be kept as long as they were licensed, locked up, and there was no ammo in the house, or something like that, or they had to be surrendered in the amnesty. A lot were surrendered voluntarily.

So, unfounded fear of weapon. Thanks for clearing that up.

[drwaffles]

Gun control is such a complicated issue that I'm not even going to try to get in on this debate. I would, however, like to speak on the behalf of people who, like myself and Linliel, find the idea of keeping guns in a domestic environment distasteful. One of the arguments you hear a lot from defenders of the right to bare arms is that "everything is potentially a weapon, so you might as well ban kitchen knives and golf clubs". The key word there is "potentially" - a gun is an object designed and manufactured specifically for the purpose of wounding or killing other human beings, unless you're a farmer or game hunter of course. Whilst I understand the arguments for guns as a deterrent, and the arguments pertaining to illegal firearms, I would rather leave myself slightly more vulnerable to theft than have one in my home. The idea makes me very uncomfortable.

Of course, there's the people who would then ask "would you not want an antique sword in your house? That was designed and manufactured to be used as a weapon too". I wouldn't mind, no, just as I wouldn't mind someone collecting antique firearms. My issue is with keeping a gun in one's home and intending to use it as a weapon should the need arise. That, to me, is distasteful, and whilst Americans are perfectly entitled to their perspectives, I'm very glad to be living in a country where guns are strictly controlled.

Sorry this topic has gone off on a tangent, but there isn't really any point in discussing the Cumbria shootings in relation to anything else that's being talked about here. The last time a gun massacre of this magnitude occurred in the UK was in 1987. As has fortunately been said by many politicians and people in the media since the shootings, new legislation and pressuring the NHS are completely pointless. It's just one of those things that, sadly, do happen from time to time, and no amount of brainstorming possible preventative measures is going to change that.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

So, unfounded fear of weapon. Thanks for clearing that up.

No match for your unfounded fear of the boogieman that's always gonna getcha! Seriously you can stop rationalizing guns because you saw an episode of Law and Order.

[Korietsu]

No match for your unfounded fear of the boogieman that's always gonna getcha! Seriously you can stop rationalizing guns because you saw an episode of Law and Order.

Having been nearly robbed at gunpoint and assaulted this year at my apartment, I can safely say I have no unfounded fears. While by no means a weakling, I can't deal with 3 fuckers mad because I honked my horn at them for being stupid while driving and nearly causing a wreck.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Having been nearly robbed at gunpoint and assaulted this year at my apartment, I can safely say I have no unfounded fears. While by no means a weakling, I can't deal with 3 fuckers mad because I honked my horn at them for being stupid while driving and nearly causing a wreck.

You can accomplish the same things with pepper spray or a taser as you could with a gun, minus the killing. I watched a girl pepper spray two guys that were hassling her and 7 other people in the area were out of commission from the spray residue.

You're naive if you think guns are the answer.

[Korietsu]

You can accomplish the same things with pepper spray or a taser as you could with a gun, minus the killing. I watched a girl pepper spray two guys that were hassling her and 7 other people in the area were out of commission from the spray residue.

You're naive if you think guns are the answer.

I don't have to fire my weapon to make it effective. That's what you fail to understand.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I don't have to fire my weapon to make it effective. That's what you fail to understand.

Right because the boogeyman breaking into your house at night can see your gun. You seem to be the one that fails understanding.

[Korietsu]

Right because the boogeyman breaking into your house at night can see your gun. You seem to be the one that fails understanding.

You just gave a public anecdote, I gave you the equivalent. You're not going to just lumber around in the dark in your house if you suspect an intruder, you're going to either be using your flashlight or hitting light switches.

While every human life is precious, when you attempt to harm someone else in cold blood, you have to reap the consequences, which might be forfeiture of your life.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

You just gave a public anecdote, I gave you the equivalent. You're not going to just lumber around in the dark in your house if you suspect an intruder, you're going to either be using your flashlight or hitting light switches.

While every human life is precious, when you attempt to harm someone else in cold blood, you have to reap the consequences, which might be forfeiture of your life.

Oh the boogeyman speech again.

[Korietsu]

Oh the boogeyman speech again.

Ooh, straw man again.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Ooh, straw man again.

You can call it whatever you want as long you acknowledge it doesn't exist.

[Linliel]

While every human life is precious, when you attempt to harm someone else in cold blood, you have to reap the consequences, which might be forfeiture of your life.

But I don't want to harm you, I just want your TV!

[Shojin]

Take my goddamn HDTV and I'll shoot you in the fucking face with an M4.

[Linliel]

Take my goddamn HDTV and I'll shoot you in the fucking face with an M4.

lol