Dorp XXIII: 15M FOR BALTS, ALL BALTS MUST GO

[Neosutra]

The only problem is the T2, shit has an hour repop and -every- mage everywhere is after him.

[EjinCaitsith]

Spoiler: show

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/z...806_030401.png

4man, both sams were dualing(the rdm + brd). 25min~ fight

Like Failure and others have said, it's a joke to tank when slow and elegy are on. MS is basically a free zerg period since it doesn't use any TP moves during. But Negative Whirl spam can be very very annoying at the end. The second sam isn't needed cause its very easy for rdm to solo tank if the sam should happen to die, although it speeds the fight up a lot.

[Shenrien]

so, do we know if the hachimakis are 100% drops? has anyone that has a NM that lists one as a drop, but not see it fall?

[Neosutra]

I assume it's 100% because it's the shittiest drop on just about every NM, and that's how SE rolls.

[Fiendishone]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...805_202242.png

Hurray. Just need Sarameya to put out legs to complete WS set for Sam. Fight's a joke, but the 4500 wire cutter at 2% was a nice parting gift.

I can't get past the full Usuakne SAM I'm seeing and hoping Neo just switched to it after it died.

[Neosutra]

Nope. I use Mix and Match when I'm doing pure DD, but use full Usu when low manning and tanking on Sam.

Contrary to bandwagon stupidity, the DoT difference between Mix and Match and Full Usu isnt much (though I know when to use each and do), and in a fight like the above (where evasion is helpful and I wasnt capped on acc due to eating meat), Full Usu is superior.

Regardless, calling someone "gimp" for using full usukane is -retarded-.

[Fiendishone]

Nope. I use Mix and Match when I'm doing pure DD, but use full Usu when low manning and tanking on Sam.

Contrary to bandwagon stupidity, the DoT difference between Mix and Match and Full Usu isnt much (though I know when to use each and do), and in a fight like the above (where evasion is helpful and I wasnt capped on acc due to eating meat), Full Usu is superior.

Regardless, calling someone "gimp" for using full usukane is -retarded-.

No no no, wasn't calling you gimp at all lol

I've tried using both full set, and mix n match, and myself have found to prefer mix n match personally. I just feel that losing the haste (especially on sam/nin) isn't a good thing overall.

[Milkster]

Nope. I use Mix and Match when I'm doing pure DD, but use full Usu when low manning and tanking on Sam.

Contrary to bandwagon stupidity, the DoT difference between Mix and Match and Full Usu isnt much (though I know when to use each and do), and in a fight like the above (where evasion is helpful and I wasnt capped on acc due to eating meat), Full Usu is superior.

Regardless, calling someone "gimp" for using full usukane is -retarded-.

Incoming Thorny and .(w/e)% increase in damage argument for two pages!

[Neosutra]

No no no, wasn't calling you gimp at all lol

I've tried using both full set, and mix n match, and myself have found to prefer mix n match personally. I just feel that losing the haste (especially on sam/nin) isn't a good thing overall.

Obviously I swap to max haste/fast cast (and even ACP body) for Utsu casting.

As for that fight above, my acc was at about 85% (eyeballing) due to eating meat, and my evade rate was at about 20%. With those numbers, Full Usu provides higher DoT/survivability. It would be silly to use a MnM set for that (though eating pizza next time would change that, however the extra evasion does help). However, even in optimal DD situations, MnM barely outperforms full usu, so I still /facepalm when I see people raging over full usu Sams.

I also dont have a 6% haste belt or Dusk+1 gloves, so the gap is even smaller for me (Wife sold V.belt while I was deployed, working on another replacement. Working on DG+1 synth as well).

@ Milkster: We've already done the math between the two sets, as I asked that very question when I first took Sam to 75 like a month and a half ago, and the difference came within 1-2% with optimal gear for both sets. It's one thing to admit one set is more optimal than another in various situations, it's completely another to rage on people who know the difference and choose other options based on the situation.

[Byrthnoth]

Also, I'd like to point out that full Usukane is no longer the most awesome SAM town gear. Viking hats forever.

[Neosutra]

I do love my Viking hat. However I will admit that -30 acc (hands and head) during WS makes me nervous, even if I do know that single hit WSs have a large acc boost.

[Hyriu]

Also, I'd like to point out that full Usukane is no longer the most awesome SAM town gear. Viking hats forever.

Viking hat Taru is BEST taru

[FailureMidgard]

Obviously I swap to max haste/fast cast (and even ACP body) for Utsu casting.

As for that fight above, my acc was at about 85% (eyeballing) due to eating meat, and my evade rate was at about 20%. With those numbers, Full Usu provides higher DoT/survivability. It would be silly to use a MnM set for that (though eating pizza next time would change that, however the extra evasion does help). However, even in optimal DD situations, MnM barely outperforms full usu, so I still /facepalm when I see people raging over full usu Sams.

I also dont have a 6% haste belt or Dusk+1 gloves, so the gap is even smaller for me (Wife sold V.belt while I was deployed, working on another replacement. Working on DG+1 synth as well).

@ Milkster: We've already done the math between the two sets, as I asked that very question when I first took Sam to 75 like a month and a half ago, and the difference came within 1-2% with optimal gear for both sets. It's one thing to admit one set is more optimal than another in various situations, it's completely another to rage on people who know the difference and choose other options based on the situation.

On my last fight vs ruminator, he missed me 4 times, hit me 2 times, and hit shadows 61 times. You should have 9 more evasion and 3 agi than me and I was parsing at floored evasion (5.9%, close enough). That's assuming your evasion is capped as well (which it prolly is, but I dunno, not everyone has capped defensive skils yet, mine def is). Honestly don't see how you're getting 20% evasion rate unless you just got super lucky. Also, I don't think evasion even helps on that NM due to the 0 DAs and easy to land slow/elegy on.

And the difference between full-timing a soil ring and swapping it is less than that, but let me guess, you'd get pissed at a paladin doing that and say it was retarded? I agree the difference between mix and full usu is small, but so is the difference between NQ dusk and dusk+1, so why would you bother with that? So is the difference between Swift and VBelt, so why bother there? 3% haste (pizza, fumas, nq dusk) is a decent difference, I'm fairly certain you had 2march+haste 'cause you aren't that retarded, and you would have had higher accuracy past that.

3% haste is a ~7% increase in damage btw, not to mention the increased accuracy, you're looking at probably more in the realm of 15-20% increase in total damage at the cost of at best 5% evasion rate (if you were indeed not floored like I was) on a mob where the only thing evasion does is less you cast utsu slightly less (and that's only if you weren't casting Ichi on last shadow anyway).

Also, +100 acc on Gekko is a pretty decent approximation, so just use that and see what your accuracy is at. Chances are it's still higher than your TP gear, but if it isn't ever, ya, re-think the -acc stuff.

Also, I'd like to point out that full Usukane is no longer the most awesome SAM town gear. Viking hats forever.

And Danzo Sune-Ate!!!!!

[darkepyon]

Also, I'd like to point out that full Usukane is no longer the most awesome SAM town gear. Viking hats forever.

Word!

Even despite not having either before quitting.

[Neosutra]

3% haste is a ~7% increase in damage btw, not to mention the increased accuracy, you're looking at probably more in the realm of 15-20% increase in total damage at the cost of at best 5% evasion rate (if you were indeed not floored like I was) on a mob where the only thing evasion does is less you cast utsu slightly less (and that's only if you weren't casting Ichi on last shadow anyway).

It's 2% haste difference for me since I dont have DG+1, and I already said had I eatin pizza (like I should have for that fight, but didnt know), MnM would have been superior. Since I didnt eat pizza, the extra acc from usukane + added def/fstr was superior DoT.

We're both saying MnM is better.

We're both saying why it's better.

In my situation, Full Usu was better due to my food choice.

When I fight it next time, and use Pizza, MnM will probably provide slightly better DoT. But 15-20% is a gross exaggeration. When using pizza (should be at or near cap on acc with pizza on him), the difference between sets is:

Not counting acc differences (though if you're not capped with pizza, it favors Usu more):
17 evasion (and 3 agi) (That's more like 8-9% evasion rate if we do 2 evasion = 1% evade rate, which would correlate to my ~20% evasion rate and you're 6%), 8 str (2fstr), and 5 attack vs. 2 haste and 10 dex.

And I'm not sure if you were just unlucky with evades, but I never had to use Ichi once during that fight and only popped Seigan/3rd eye once to save time on casting Ni. Saying evasion isnt needed due to elegy/slow no DA isnt the point, as less casting/canceling hasso isnt worthless, even if only 10% less.

[Byrthnoth]

And I'm not sure if you were just unlucky with evades, but I never had to use Ichi once during that fight and only popped Seigan/3rd eye once to save time on casting Ni. Saying evasion isnt needed due to elegy/slow no DA isnt the point, as less casting/canceling hasso isnt worthless, even if only 10% less.

I've heard that monsters pop with level ranges. One or two levels will make a big Hit rate difference.

[FailureMidgard]

It's 2% haste difference for me since I dont have DG+1, and I already said had I eatin pizza (like I should have for that fight, but didnt know), MnM would have been superior. Since I didnt eat pizza, the extra acc from usukane + added def/fstr was superior DoT.

Usu: 2+3+3+5=13
Mixed: 3+5+3+5=16
Should be well over cap on accuracy, so switch to Fumas and a Strigoi ring and don't use an accuracy ring (also don't use accuracy back or neck if you were, and use Cerb+1/Justice).

When I fight it next time, and use Pizza, MnM will probably provide slightly better DoT. But 15-20% is a gross exaggeration. When using pizza (should be at or near cap on acc with pizza on him), the difference between sets is:

Not counting acc differences (though if you're not capped with pizza, it favors Usu more):
17 evasion (and 3 agi) (That's more like 8-9% evasion rate if we do 2 evasion = 1% evade rate), 8 str (2fstr), and 5 attack vs. 2 haste and 10 dex.

I was assuming 3% haste is 7% increase, and 10% hitrate is 11.7% (using your 85% acc #) and saying the combination of pizza + mix set. Also, if you were using acc gear before, you're overestimating the fSTR because you really should be TPing in a STR ring and such with Pizza on in most cases. So your comparison isn't even accurate there.

Also, I wasn't making a comment on the evasion you gain going to Usu from a mixed set, but the evasion you gained over my parse (I have 8 from merits), as I'm calling the evasion # I had right at the floor/border where you can start to get use from, evasion - hence the "at best" - which is where I got 9 eva and 3 agi from. And again, not eyeballed, but counted, I had a 5.9% evasion rate. And again, I don't understand how you can value evasion on this mob unless you didnt have support. Shadow recasts are a complete non-issue, it can't do anything tricky. No DA, slow and elegyable...

But sure, if you're using the wrong food and not acc capped, full Usu is better, I guess. That's assuming you were in accuracy gear (BTath, Acc Ring, Cuch, etc) though.

[Neosutra]

I've heard that monsters pop with level ranges. One or two levels will make a big Hit rate difference.

Either way, unless this has a 10 level range, it's obvious evasion isnt worthless against it (i.e. it's not way overcapped on acc), so the argument is valid.

However, this never turns out well, as the people here (including myself) are too stubborn to understand when we are agreeing with each other.

Readers should take away:
Easily low manned.
High-ish def/evasion (pizza).
Reasonably low acc.
Decent drop rate on hands.

edit: The fstr difference I was counting was from usu head/legs, not from ring. And again... we are both saying MnM is better and that I should have been using pizza.. Let's agree more vehemently please.

We can disagree on the benefits of evasion and such for being able to keep hasso up more, as well as other sets, but the differences in DoT are grossly exaggerated.

edit2: Additionally I use Usu body + feet + sword strap, rather than Usu body + fuma + Pole grip.

[FailureMidgard]

Either way, unless this has a 10 level range, it's obvious evasion isnt worthless against it (i.e. it's not way overcapped on acc), so the argument is valid.

However, this never turns out well, as the people here (including myself) are too stubborn to understand when we are agreeing with each other.

Readers should take away:
Easily low manned.
High-ish def/evasion (pizza).
Reasonably low acc.
Decent drop rate on hands.

I'd like to see a parse of evasion rate, as it seemed to be overcapped accuracy on me with a whole 9 less skill and 3 less agility. Which was part of the point of my posts. My evasion is capped for an 80 Sam with 4 merits past that, in addition to using Usu body.

edit: The fstr difference I was counting was from usu head/legs, not from ring. And again... we are both saying MnM is better and that I should have been using pizza.. Let's agree more vehemently please.

We can disagree on the benefits of evasion and such for being able to keep hasso up more, as well as other sets, but the differences in DoT are grossly exaggerated.

I'm aware of the fSTR you are counting, I'm asking what rings you are using in your 2 sets. My best guess is you are using an accuracy ring in the full Usu, and didn't bother to change it in the Pizza + mixed, which I'm saying you should, as once you add Pizza you're a good 20+ accuracy over cap.
And again, the 15-20% increase in damage is also from capping accuracy from 85>95%. It's ~7% for 3haste, and another 12ish from capping accuracy.

[Neosutra]

Except I clearly stated I'm not talking about Pizza + MnM vs meat + Full Usu, because that's a dumb argument. I clearly stated I should have eatin pizza. I clearly stated that if I did eat pizza MnM would be better. The "gross exaggeration" is the difference between the sets -in my situation- where I had the wrong food on and taking into account evasion rates (which we can debate after next parse).

This is a really stupid argument. However you are correct I overstated the fstr differences as I wasnt accounting for swapping back to str ring for pizza, the fstr difference is closer to 1 than 2. You're also not taking into account the extra att from rcb (that does help your TP phase DoT) in your total damage comparison.

Stubborn asses: "OMG NEO YOU'RE WEARING FULL USU".

Neo: "Based on my food, which I found out was bad, full usu was better".

Stubborn asses: "Oh ok, well you're right that full usu is better in that situation, but OMG FULL USU ISNT AS GOOD AS MnM WITH PIZZA!!"

Neo: "I never said Full Usu + meat is better than Pizza + MnM"

Stubborn asses: "OMG NEO WHY CANT YOU SEE FULL USU ISNT AS GOOD!!??!?!?"/

Neo: "I didnt say it was...."