Sports Buffs: Your All-Time Teams for various sports.

[Coyohma]

C - Josh Gibson - Already mentioned him, to me this is an easy choice.

1B - Lou Gehrig - Was going to put Pujols here and assume he doesn't fall off a cliff tomorrow, but I just can't do it. Pujols hasn't quite reached the kind of peak seasons as Gehrig - of course sadly in this era, that seems to be one of the points for him being legit.

2B - Eddie Collins - I'm glad he's been mentioned more than once here. His numbers are better than they look (if comparing to Hornsby), because of the era. Consider a snapshot of the average runs per game for 1909 AL (3.44), and for Hornsby in 1929 NL (5.36). I think you can see what I'm getting at. Collins was also a better defensive 2B if still comparing to Hornsby.

SS - Honus Wagner - Gave others some thought, but Wagner was too dominant during his era.

3B - Mike Schmidt - His AVG And OBP leave something to be desired, but his power and defense are just enough in what is probably a weaker position.

LF - Ted Williams - Nice to have an easy choice.

CF - Mickey Mantle - This position is absurd. You can go so many different ways here.. Mays, Cobb, Oscar Charleston, Tris Speaker, DiMaggio, Griffey.. Since there are so many, and it's arguably a "pick 'em", I chose who I thought was the most physically gifted, with the highest potential.

RF - Babe Ruth - No-brainer.

LHP - Lefty Grove - A 3.06 ERA and 300 wins are strong numbers, but just looking at that doesn't come close to doing him justice. He led the league in ERA nine times... To 300 wins are just 141 losses, a ridiculous .680 winning percentage (best among those with 300+ wins). It's sort of like Pedro Martinez, if Pedro had added 1,000+ innings to his dominance (and been a little better in the postseason, I suppose). The only thing against him in comparison to a Walter Johnson is sheer IP. He only played in a few WS, but he was brilliant when he did.

RHP - Walter Johnson - Not as impressive inning per inning as Grove, but still remarkable, and the IP advantage does mean something.

CL - Mariano Rivera - A relief after going through SP.

I had every intention of choosing 5 SP, but I eventually gave up in frustration. There are just too many for five spots.. The only 2 I felt good about happened to be a righty and a lefty, so I just went with that. Just look at this shit with only 3 spots open:

Pete Alexander, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Tom Seaver, Kid Nichols, Warren Spahn, Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, etc.. Satchel Paige from the Negro leagues.. Even Sandy Koufax, if you decided to really stress peak stretches over the typical 10-20 year spans. It just goes on, and on.. So screw it, I'll take whichever 3 of these to pair with the 2 I've chosen.

There is an argument that says the level of competition has improved enough that these "old" players aren't a valid choice, but I can't completely buy it. I agree the population has risen, I agree that you have the entirety of the population represented now, instead of only part.. But it can't be logical to disqualify people entirely based on when they played - is everyone who has played up until now going to be disqualified from discussions in 50 or 100 years? I hope not. Not to mention, for the old players I'm really referencing, there is a counter point: with about half as many teams in a league, that evens out some of the talent/population differences.

[Diamicles]

jesus, does anyone have another all-time NFL team? baseball/hockey lists are boring.

[Headspace]

jesus, does anyone have another all-time NFL team? baseball/hockey lists are boring.

QB: Major Applewhite
QB2: Vince Young
RB: Ricky Williams
RB2: Cedric Benson
WR: Roy Williams
WR2: Limas Sweed

Doesn't get much better than this.

[Cephius]

There is an argument that says the level of competition has improved enough that these "old" players aren't a valid choice, but I can't completely buy it. I agree the population has risen, I agree that you have the entirety of the population represented now, instead of only part.. But it can't be logical to disqualify people entirely based on when they played - is everyone who has played up until now going to be disqualified from discussions in 50 or 100 years? I hope not. Not to mention, for the old players I'm really referencing, there is a counter point: with about half as many teams in a league, that evens out some of the talent/population differences.

This is why advanced statistics like OPS+ ERA+ etc exist, to give us an idea of how good a player was when measured against his peers. It makes it easier to compare players across eras. The fact that Babe Ruth still holds the record for adjusted OPS over Barry Bonds tells you that even a great ballplayer juiced out of his mind couldn't be as dominant as Ruth (and people still argue that Ruth's numbers are inflated by the lack of negro talent when he played) was when he played. More importantly, it makes sure these historical performances aren't lost as time passes.

Though, even then it makes constructing a comprehensive "best ever" list in baseball near impossible to make. I've tried in the past and end up just getting in a million arguments over it. Hell, I could start right now by saying that Nolan Ryan wouldn't get within 100 miles of my lists. Or that yeah, Mariano Rivera is the best closer ever, but closers have only been around for 30-40 years, and back then there were guys like Goose Gossage who routinely pitched 2-3+ innings. How can you make an honest comparison when the parameters we judge that position by have changed so much? I've stopped trying.

[foopy]

What I love is people trying to compare Babe Ruth in his era to the hitters of this era. Some of these talking heads don't get that the two eras are really that much different. Great thoughts about the Babe though, barber. He was one of the greatest ball players for a reason.

As far as Ted Williams, that's a good point. Dude was a beast. That's why no one will ever break that hitting streak of his in the Majors. No one was a better hitter than Ted Williams imo. Not saying power and all that, but just a hitter.

you mean dimaggio's streak.

[Mizango]

jesus, does anyone have another all-time NFL team? baseball/hockey lists are boring.

Spoiler: show

-QB
Kyle Orton
JP Losman
Dan Orlovsky
Joey Elliott

-RB
Ricky Williams
Lawrence Phillips
Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala
Mike Alstott

-WR
Reidel Anthony
Jacquez Green
Travis McGriff
Greg Orton
Peter Warrick
Bobby Newcombe
Steve Smith
John Standeford

Since I like to run play action and throw scuds all day, ill spare you the defense.

These players by all rights should be first ballot hall of famers.

All you need to know.

[Ishido]

Marcel Dionne's omission aside, it still doesn't make it okay for him to even jokingly place Datsyuk on a list of the best forwards to ever play the game. He's just barely in the debate for best 12 forwards PLAYING RIGHT NOW - he'd certainly not make the top half of the current 12.

While I agree about Datsyuk not deserving a place in the all time greats argument, saying he isn't easily one of the 12 best in the game right now is just dumb. He's pretty easily 3rd behind Crosby and AO, at worst somewhere around 5th or 6th, and depending on what kind of qualities you are looking at could be 1st in some arguments.

But yeah, not deserving of being on an all-time great list. And I am a gigantic Datsyuk fan.

[Bregor]

While I agree about Datsyuk not deserving a place in the all time greats argument, saying he isn't easily one of the 12 best in the game right now is just dumb. He's pretty easily 3rd behind Crosby and AO, at worst somewhere around 5th or 6th, and depending on what kind of qualities you are looking at could be 1st in some arguments.

But yeah, not deserving of being on an all-time great list. And I am a gigantic Datsyuk fan.

Yeah Datsyuk is easily a top ten forward, I think I could find six forwards I'd rather have but after that it gets dicey.

I left Crosby and AO off my all-time list, just think it's too soon to compare them to Gretzky and Super Mario. For all we know, Drew Doughty could end up there in 20 years. Lidstrom (and Jagr I guess, lolKHL) were the only active players I had, and their careers speak for themselves.

[Brill Weave]

Going with hockey and I'm not going by their "traditional" position.

LW: Michel Goulet, Luc Robitaille, Michel Briere, Stephane Richer
C: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Ron Francis, Joe Sakic
RW: Jaromir Jagr, Alexander Ovechkin, Jean Provonost, Clark Gillies

D: Scott Stevens, Bobby Orr, Viacheslav Fetisov, Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom
G: Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek, Ken Dryden