Final Fantasy XIV at E3 2010

[LD]

Well, I guess there's no point in explaining it to you then.

Gear Swaping (while engaged) is gone. It's not coming back. If you want more strategy in a battle, just hope it comes from actual gameplay. We don't know all the abilities we'll be able to us to actively adapt to a battle, but hopefully they'll be more controllable than the current stance system while retaining the same shift in combat effectiveness.

[Hyan]

I don't really care about the strategy. I just saw the massive advantages of it when it came to endgame, which is my biggest concern right now indeed. They have a good chance to make a great endgame and ruin it yet again by not giving us anything situational to aim towards which would make the endgame, if it stays the same as in XI, pretty damn shitty when it could be good if they just kept doing what they've done so far in XI post-2006.

I don't really see the problem with situational gear/grid/whatever being more useful than your "main" equipment either way, but I guess I just don't "get it" or something.

[Alderaan]

I'd rather they focus on battle's and strategy that have us on the constant move, rather that standing in one spot swapping gear all day until the mob is dead. I enjoyed it in XI, but i'm ready for something more dynamic.

[Hyan]

"Standing in one spot" has nothing to do with the discussion. XI did it like that, but it wasn't linked to the equipment switch system nor does it have to be.

[Alderaan]

Of course it has to do with the discussion. I don't want to hear "shit is situational" anymore. Situational gear, when it comes to certain elemental resists and things like that, are fine. The extreme way XI did it with otherwise useless side-grade gear, is not.

[Coren]

Situational gear gives you a giant pile of stuff to go for after you get your best gear, hence extended the game dramatically. FFXI kept people so busy for so long because they needed gear beyond the main set they wore. The other option was like wow, where they kept making each set obsolete, so as soon as you accomplished something in-game, it got pretty much wiped. Hecatomb is a good example; nobody in their right mind would wear that shit, but every melee wanted it.

I don't necessarily want that system back (fuck having to carry 50 pieces of gear for one job by the time you included all your staves, obis, mp, etc sets) but I can certainly see how effective it was at extending endgame.

[sruon]

I'd rather have the gear swapping system back but I know it won't happen.

The way Aion handles gear is dumb at best :/

[Krystm]

Situational gear gives you a giant pile of stuff to go for after you get your best gear, hence extended the game dramatically. FFXI kept people so busy for so long because they needed gear beyond the main set they wore. The other option was like wow, where they kept making each set obsolete, so as soon as you accomplished something in-game, it got pretty much wiped. Hecatomb is a good example; nobody in their right mind would wear that shit, but every melee wanted it.

I don't necessarily want that system back (fuck having to carry 50 pieces of gear for one job by the time you included all your staves, obis, mp, etc sets) but I can certainly see how effective it was at extending endgame.

I agree with this as if you think about it there would be no need to go to sky 800 times for 1 pc of "situational gear" however being the "best" requires sacrifice even if it is for +1 stat.

[Agito]

Gear swapping... Do people really want gear that has stats like in FFXI, how about the exact macro system? Do you want to lug around 80+ items on a single class because each and every one of those items is situational and usefull? Do you want to spend over 20 million gil on a shit load of situational pieces of gear for all of your max level classes? I know i sure as hell don't. Go play FFXI if you want this gear swapping and don't even think that FFXIV will be anything like FFXI because it won't. Hell, does any other mmorpg out there have a gear swapping during combat system like FFXI has?

[Hyan]

Gear swapping... Do people really want gear that has stats like in FFXI, how about the exact macro system? Do you want to lug around 80+ items on a single class because each and every one of those items is situational and usefull? Do you want to spend over 20 million gil on a shit load of situational pieces of gear for all of your max level classes? I know i sure as hell don't. Go play FFXI if you want this gear swapping and don't even think that FFXIV will be anything like FFXI because it won't. Hell, does any other mmorpg out there have a gear swapping during combat system like FFXI has?

And what's the other choice? Gear resets every update, endgame consists of "instances" and "raids" where everyone looks like one another, the little innovation that SE had going on with events like Salvage and Nyzul gone..

Yes, I would like to work towards situational gear/grids/whatever instead of that. Assuming SE even does change the way they deal with endgame which, in my opinion, is unlikely, although possible. XIV's endgame won't work otherwise, if it's anything like XI's.

And before I get assaulted by the WoW group I'm not dissing it, I just want other options if possible.

[Lucavi]

And what's the other choice? Gear resets every update, endgame consists of "instances" and "raids" where everyone looks like one another, the little innovation that SE had going on with events like Salvage and Nyzul gone..

Yes, I would like to work towards situational gear/grids/whatever instead of that. Assuming SE even does change the way they deal with endgame which, in my opinion, is unlikely, although possible. XIV's endgame won't work otherwise, if it's anything like XI's.

And before I get assaulted by the WoW group I'm not dissing it, I just want other options if possible.

How about you let the developers do what they're supposed to do to get their paychecks: design NEW systems for a NEW game that will (hopefully) get us OLD players to part with our paychecks as readily as the NEW players.

They invented the gear-swapping nonsense: let them invent the next thing. The only reason you cling to gear-swapping is because you have no idea what's ahead in the future and don't want what already exists in other games.

It was a flawed system that had perks, much like every other system in every other MMO in existence. Let this new game come with its own new systems - give it a freakin' chance before you start crying for more gear with +5acc -5chr +10str -10mnd +10atk against aquans.

From the looks of the armor sets and descriptions, the gear system is going to be nothing like WoW. There simply aren't enough slots and isn't enough room in the individual equipment page for the ten thousand (awesome) stats that WoW has. This game is going to be simplistic, just like FFXI, but don't stagnate a potentially good set of waters with the same old from the last game. There's already too much "same old" going on in this game with the canned animations and stiff character feel.

[Biggie]

How about you let the developers do what they're supposed to do to get their paychecks: design NEW systems for a NEW game that will (hopefully) get us OLD players to part with our paychecks as readily as the NEW players.

They invented the gear-swapping nonsense: let them invent the next thing. The only reason you cling to gear-swapping is because you have no idea what's ahead in the future and don't want what already exists in other games.

It was a flawed system that had perks, much like every other system in every other MMO in existence. Let this new game come with its own new systems - give it a freakin' chance before you start crying for more gear with +5acc -5chr +10str -10mnd +10atk against aquans.

From the looks of the armor sets and descriptions, the gear system is going to be nothing like WoW. There simply aren't enough slots and isn't enough room in the individual equipment page for the ten thousand (awesome) stats that WoW has. This game is going to be simplistic, just like FFXI, but don't stagnate a potentially good set of waters with the same old from the last game. There's already too much "same old" going on in this game with the canned animations and stiff character feel.

You sure seem to know a lot on how the game "is going to be"

[Hyan]

How about you let the developers do what they're supposed to do to get their paychecks: design NEW systems for a NEW game that will (hopefully) get us OLD players to part with our paychecks as readily as the NEW players.

They invented the gear-swapping nonsense: let them invent the next thing. The only reason you cling to gear-swapping is because you have no idea what's ahead in the future and don't want what already exists in other games.

It was a flawed system that had perks, much like every other system in every other MMO in existence. Let this new game come with its own new systems - give it a freakin' chance before you start crying for more gear with +5acc -5chr +10str -10mnd +10atk against aquans.

From the looks of the armor sets and descriptions, the gear system is going to be nothing like WoW. There simply aren't enough slots and isn't enough room in the individual equipment page for the ten thousand (awesome) stats that WoW has. This game is going to be simplistic, just like FFXI, but don't stagnate a potentially good set of waters with the same old from the last game. There's already too much "same old" going on in this game with the canned animations and stiff character feel.

I am, Lucavi. While I at least after many arguments have not figured out exactly -how- they could even do that, I have faith in them to work it out. I am concerned, however, which I won't deny.

I'd also say that I don't want them to invent new system in this one simply because there Will be difficulties just like in XI and we might find ourselves with another Kings system and broken itemization simply because SE couldn't predict the outcome well enough.

But hell, they'll do whatever they want and I'll be content with it or just don't play. Simple as that.

[Alderaan]

I'd still rather they come up with something new as Lucavi stated. Gear resets every update or chasing the same gear for 4 years? There has to be something better than both options.

Institute better gear from the start instead of having to make up for ridiculous things like DRK AF with situational gear. I mean how much of those side grades would we actually need if they put proper stats on gear to begin with.

Having a giant pile of stuff to do because the basic gear is sub par is not good game design.

Worrying about everyone looking the same is easily combated with an item remodel system.

[Hyan]

I'd still rather they come up with something new as Lucavi stated. Gear resets every update or chasing the same gear for 4 years? There has to be something better than both options.

Nobody has ever come up with a proper solution though. Everything is flawed.

Not saying SE can't come up with a solution (they've done things that still amaze me to date) but I'm not holding my breath because it is unlikely.

[Loaar]

Nobody has ever come up with a proper solution though. Everything is flawed.

Not saying SE can't come up with a solution (they've done things that still amaze me to date) but I'm not holding my breath because it is unlikely.

Well, nothing I've seen in FFXIV leads me to think they will allow gear swapping, so you better hope they have something better.

[Hyan]

Well, nothing I've seen in FFXIV leads me to think they will allow gear swapping, so you better hope they have something better.

It's only a concern once I hit that stage anyway- in the worst case, I'll enjoy the game up to the cap and then quit. Alright with me, it'll probably take me ages to get there anyway like in XI.

[Vydos]

Honestly, I don't mind gear swapping. BUT! Only if it's limited to rings and accesories. So that there's no blinking when changing gears and it feels a bit more real to change rings and necklaces during a fight instead of an entire armor set.

Another reason for this is purely out of selfish reasons. I'm planning on working on crafting first and I want people to buy every type of ring and necklace I make lol.

[Lucavi]

You sure seem to know a lot on how the game "is going to be"

Play the alpha and look at the menus. Its pretty easy to see that the weapon and armor stat pages aren't going to list 30 individual stats, forms of refresh, forms of HP regen, and resistances.

Hell, has ANY FF game ever listed massively in-depth stats on equipment? I sure haven't seen one. FFXI was the most "in-depth", and it turned out to be pretty bare-boned compared to other MMOs.

@Hyan: There is concrete evidence even in FFXI that SE learned from Kings, mainly because we never saw kings gear again. CoP focused on providing near-Kings-level gear for jobs that couldn't use Kings (Barone/HOMAM~!! for Drg/Thf/ect.), and after that, we saw a nice little spread of equipment for many jobs, but nothing that ever matched the "wtfholyshit" level of mass-upgrading from pre-Kings to Kings gear. It would have literally been the equivalent of jumping 3 or 4 tiers in WoW sets.

I understand where you are coming from, but I'd honestly rather wade through a NEW pile of shit than a pile of shit that looks and smells the same as the pile of shit I waded through years ago. I seriously doubt SE is going to screw up their actual gear sets: I'm more concerned that they won't shy away from their competitive (read: bot-crazy) world HNM scene. I'd rather they do it through secret or hard-to-obtain special guildelves and/or instanced "Batallion" fights that they mentioned would feature linkshells teaming up to bring down a big nasty.

At its core, a gear-based and challenge-based system is only as successful as the reward system associated with it. Are we going to see 1-2 things drop from bosses that spawn once a night or once a week and have linkshells or Batallions squabbling over the drops? Are we going to have a guaranteed set of items that has a chance to drop 1 or 2 each time, or are we going to have a repeat of Tiamat where you can bust your ass for a fire crystal?

I know the fights are going to be, at some level, enjoyable, because while the FFXI fights were now WoW (spacial positioning, constant engagement, ect.), at their core, any fight that involves working with valued teammates is going to be fun, but if you're worried about end-game, I'd recommend worrying more about how you're going to be rewarded for your actions than how many times your character can flash as you swap between said rewards.

[Cahlum]

I hope the gear swap is different this time