Is it 2006, or am I just the worst PLD on Cerberus?

[Furionstormrage]

Jesus, reading Danniella's ramblings made me think this was a bump from 2005.

[HadesCoops]

We probably bought these idiots to you from Hades lol...

[Sylvrdragon]

I tried across many many many social shells to advocate leveling PLD in a Hauby, and I was met with resistance every single time. Not just skepticism, which I would actually be glad of, but straight up refusal to acknowledge it as a possibility. I was flamed and pelted with countless logical fallacies and eventually I quit FFXI and what the fuck am I even doing in this section getting caught up in shit that I don't even play anymore?

[Byrthnoth]

When you meet these people with 95% accuracy everywhere on Paladin, the thing to do is to fall back to Byrnie +1. It has the same VIT and Defense as PLD AF body and they might be amenable to HP + STR + Attack being better than 2 Enmity because they have capped accuracy so it'll obviously help their damage.

[Kalisa]

Someone reupload the OP's pics if they can, I think I know what shell he is referring to lol...

We probably bought these idiots to you from Hades lol...

The shell is called HyozanLegacy, and yes, it's from Hades. And it's had those kinds of people in it at least as far back as 2004.

[Yugl]

I don't point out playstyle or gear choice errors unless I'm certain it will fuck over an event I'm participating in. Otherwise, it's not worth the effort. In fact, it's good since it means all the really good gear is cheaper. Can you imagine the price on Darksteel/HQ if people bothered with PDT? Thanks goodness they don't know where it's at (And holy hell I ended with a lot of prepositions).

[Despain]

Its like this in most newbie social shells. The sad thing is these people don't know any better, so they end up listening to these retards, hence breeding more retards.

[Yugl]

Its like this in most newbie social shells. The sad thing is these people don't know any better, so they end up listening to these retards, hence breeding more retards.

To be honest, most people are no better than them. How many here know the formulas for their respective class? How many know *why* those respective formulas come about in the first place? How many can cite the data that give rise to said formulas? Unless you're working each of these from scratch, you're taking someone's word for it. The only difference is the stage at which you're willing to blindly accept such advice. Even if you're at the point of using someone's parses to make a decision, you're taking their word by assuming it's accurate.

[Narol]

There's a huge, huge difference between blindly taking things like melee damage formulas with elements like cratio, pdif, fstr, etc as fact, and blindly taking bullshit like "I TP in Heca because the str/dex adds way more damage than the slow takes away because this guy said so" as fact.

[Yugl]

There's a huge, huge difference between blindly taking things like melee damage formulas with elements like cratio, pdif, fstr, etc as fact, and blindly taking bullshit like "I TP in Heca because the str/dex adds way more damage than the slow takes away because this guy said so" as fact.

People ask Thorny for advice all the time. He replies and they (often) comply. Different? No. Someone asks for the formula for Enfeebling magic and someone spits out an equation. Different? No. You only perceive a grand difference when in reality, it's just a different level of belief.

[Narol]

You only perceive a grand difference when in reality, it's just a different level of belief.

That's like saying you only perceive a grand difference between intelligent design and the theory of evolution, and saying that it's just a different level of belief. Sure, science is always open to the possibility that its observations, tests, and conclusions are incorrect, but they're a hell of a lot more grounded in reality than religious apologists.

[Yugl]

That's like saying you only perceive a grand difference between intelligent design and the theory of evolution, and saying that it's just a different level of belief. Sure, science is always open to the possibility that its observations, tests, and conclusions are incorrect, but they're a hell of a lot more grounded in reality than religious apologists.

That's exactly what it is. When you do a test, you've only tested for one specific event, setting, and time. You try to control interferences so that you can generalize from the result, but no matter which route you take, you're making a belief at some stage of the game.

[Narol]

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that science is only as limited as the scenarios we can test, but I am strongly disagreeing with equating highly experimented and well-tested conclusions to random nonsense spewed by people who're talking out of their asses.

[Yugl]

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that science is only as limited as the scenarios we can test, but I am strongly disagreeing with equating highly experimented and well-tested conclusions to random nonsense spewed by people who're talking out of their asses.

Highly experimented? Last I checked, we usually have one test most mechanics in the game and several follows ups that very rarely, if ever, change the scenario. For example, we accepted the enmity tests long before actual testing on HNMs (Did we even do any on HNMs?). Continuing along this line of thinking, consider the circumstance many of these players are in. They're told the *same* thing by multiple people within their LS. For them, that alone constitutes multiple testing. Consider when Pchan made a test for enfeebling magic. Ignoring what you know about his character, can you tell me whether his data set was real or false? I doubt you can. In fact, the issue may not have to do with falsifying data; it may simply be an issue of endogeneity (Not SP even though it comes up as one).

Edit: Yes, I am aware that your quote refers to science rather than FFXI, but you did make an analogy of the two, so I'm working off that to put it in your favor.

[Narol]

Even a single test under one condition proving a hypothesis correct is more backing than random crap you hear from newbie social shells ("I didn't parse it, but my gut instinct is x is better than y"). I also acknowledge that certain elements of this game haven't been as thoroughly tested as others (such as enmity).

End of the day, you can be sure that the guys putting up parses of thousands of trials of whatever are going to be at least somewhat more accurate than the guys making random, baseless assumptions. Which is basically all I'm saying. Everything at some point is a belief in the sense that science doesn't pretend to offer absolute knowledge, but certain beliefs are more rational/logical and grounded in reality than others.

[Yugl]

Even a single test under one condition proving a hypothesis correct is more backing than random crap you hear from newbie social shells ("I didn't parse it, but my gut instinct is x is better than y"). I also acknowledge that certain elements of this game haven't been as thoroughly tested as others (such as enmity).

End of the day, you can be sure that the guys putting up parses of thousands of trials of whatever are going to be at least somewhat more accurate than the guys making random, baseless assumptions. Which is basically all I'm saying. Everything at some point is a belief in the sense that science doesn't pretend to offer absolute knowledge, but certain beliefs are more rational/logical and grounded in reality than others.

The inherent fallacies of rationality and logic aside, most people in these shells often say they have tested it. I could be in a LS with Tsuko telling me enmity works one way and Kaeko saying it works another with both saying they've tested it. Sure, Kaeko will throw around numbers and pictures, but even then, we're back at the original problem of blind beliefs (in the data/pictures presented).

[Narol]

If it was truly important to prove who was correct, then testing both hypotheses would be a good way to go about it.

And if we're going to get into the scientific method being a bunch of subjective beliefs, I'll pass, because I'm really not up for that kind of discussion right now. Yes, you can run into FFXI equivalents of the luminiferous aether. Yes, any theory can be superseded. At the end of the day, you've still got to work with all you've got, and even a half-complete theory can be better than no theory at all.

[Yugl]

If it was truly important to prove who was correct, then testing both hypotheses would be a good way to go about it.

That's why I said unless you're testing it yourself (Or have the equivalent knowledge thereof), you're making a belief at some level.

[Cursed]

Ashina and Danniella, 'nuff said.






"Ask Isania" ... hahaha

[Colenzo]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2zreum1.jpg