FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[LD]

Why do classes like Lancer have MP? I get the uniformity argument but it's a physical damage class...

So they can cast spells. Classes aren't a set of static gameplay elements in FFXIV, they're more of a template; a frame that, while it will always have the same basic structure, you can add different things on to. That's why the stat system is the way it is, so a clothie can have physical attributes and a heavy can cast effectively.

[Zeh]

I'm not sure if you ever played this final fantasy series, but it's not uncommon that melee class use mp.

Dragoon/Monk/Warrior/Ranger in XI didn't, so I'm wondering why the change.

EDIT: thanks above poster, makes sense

[Lucavi]

Spellblades/Mystics used MP, and boy did they use it well. I still wanna see one in FFXIV. En-Bio, En-Death, En-Flare, please.

[Spork]

Exactly. Work on controls (allow wasd+mouselook AND ffxi-style controls, plus custom keybinds. This should be ridiculously obvious to any sane developer, and easy to implement), iron out glaring bugs, iron out netcode so I'm not in yellow with horrible stutters all the time. These things need to be done now, before the game comes out. Balance for things like MP management can be done at any time. It's not saying they don't need addressed, but there are some more immediate concerns.

I see this all the time with MMO's. "Why did X get added or changed first when fixing Y is a way bigger issue that needs to be addressed first! ZOMG!"

The developer working on the netcode or the developer working on the UI doesn't have anything to do with the guy in charge of class balance, etc.

A game like this is a big team each with their own areas of the game they are working on. Throwing the art and animation guy on the network team isn't going to get things fixed faster because it's "more important".

[Ramsey]

I see this all the time with MMO's. "Why did X get added or changed first when fixing Y is a way bigger issue that needs to be addressed first! ZOMG!"

The developer working on the netcode or the developer working on the UI doesn't have anything to do with the guy in charge of class balance, etc.

A game like this is a big team each with their own areas of the game they are working on. Throwing the art and animation guy on the network team isn't going to get things fixed faster because it's "more important".

This should be painfully obvious to anyone at this point, but thanks for pointing it out for the people who apparently think development teams are not made up of smile teams working in agile development, but instead hive-minded zerg that devote set amount of energy to tasks in some kind of priority list.

[Metafox]

Spellblades/Mystics used MP, and boy did they use it well. I still wanna see one in FFXIV. En-Bio, En-Death, En-Flare, please.

Assuming that mystics do become playable at some point, I kind of wonder how they'd take advantage of other classes' skills. So far, we've got classes that are almost 100% physical or magical, with no middle ground. It seems like a mystic's biggest feature would be their ability to bridge the gap between physical and magical.

[Alderaan]

I guess I'm alone in this but all this bitching and whining and I havent seen anyone past lvl 10 yet on beta. I do agree that mp should regenerate in passive mode but there is alot of complaints about how you dont have mp refresh and such. Remember FFXI? Refresh was lvl 41, ballads were higher than 10 also, so were the corsair rolls. In Aion my sorcerer dint have mp recovery ability for a while also. I dont think besides the passive mode mp regen there is anything that cant be fixed with higher lvl abilites. Personally I dont want my lvl 5 char to have infinate mp and cast deathga like some people here.

Edit*
In reply to what Ramsey posted. Melee classes do use mp. When I was using Red Lotus Blade it took 10 MP each time out of a pool of maybe 180. So after 18 ws's you gotta go back to crystal.

This isn't 2002 anymore, those rules no longer apply.

The first 20 levels are just as important now as anything after that. Now obviously high level skills and abilities will look and feel spectacular, but players have to actually make it that far.

With all of the options today, players don't stick around as long as they used to if a game isn't fun at the start. We also have to get over the, "well those players don't belong here then" mentality if we're going to move forward.

Personally, i'd like a lot of players filling up my world. More than just ex FFXI players.

[Rustyhagun]

I guess I'm alone in this but all this bitching and whining and I havent seen anyone past lvl 10 yet on beta. I do agree that mp should regenerate in passive mode but there is alot of complaints about how you dont have mp refresh and such. Remember FFXI? Refresh was lvl 41, ballads were higher than 10 also, so were the corsair rolls. In Aion my sorcerer dint have mp recovery ability for a while also. I dont think besides the passive mode mp regen there is anything that cant be fixed with higher lvl abilites. Personally I dont want my lvl 5 char to have infinate mp and cast deathga like some people here.

Edit*
In reply to what Ramsey posted. Melee classes do use mp. When I was using Red Lotus Blade it took 10 MP each time out of a pool of maybe 180. So after 18 ws's you gotta go back to crystal.

Agreed, you all are complaining way to soon. Wanting bigger burst spells? Wait till you get tier III and up you will see you your bursts. You have alchemy that will provide potions to recover mp and food that will give you regen to mp. If you have a buff caster (Bard? anyone, maybe another as well) that will help with mp recovery, there you go. SE wants a balance to everything for every discipline to have a purpose in XIV. You can't loose mp or alchemy looses 20% of its market. caster will be glass canons at higher levels, trust me, so you looking at melees now because you feel underpowered? C'mon look ahead to what your class will become. SE knows what their doing they've had 8 years of experience.

Also, maybe you all in beta should start making stuff, you might be surprised at what you come out with. Because from everything that I've read it looks like SE wants you all to craft stuff and not so much fight things. This is beta you are working for them, in a sense, and without pay.

[Meresgi]

I care. Because I'd quite like ffxiv to be successful. And if Classes aren't balanced it will put people off playing more than their free month.
Yes, all of the things you listed are important as well. I'm not denying this. But having such a huge discrepancy at the early levels of play can kill a game.
Square NEEDS subscribers. New ones. Not just the percentage of the FFXI populace who want to upgrade. A balanced game from the outset is imperative for this.

I'm not arguing that there needs to be some fixes to classes at the early levels. But taking too much time to make sure EVERYTHING is balanced is asinine. I've always judged MMO's on how much I enjoyed them towards the end of my free to play time, which gave me a good amount of hours with the game and usually got me past the first few levels. First few levels of every MMO sucks ass and are usually imbalanced in certain ways. It's about the middle levels imo. Those are the meat and core of the game.

I'm sure they need subscribers but like Luca said, a lot of people would rather see a medium subscription base then something like WoW. Where SE begins to just cater to everyone and toss crazy shit out there.

[Lucavi]

Also, maybe you all in beta should start making stuff, you might be surprised at what you come out with. Because from everything that I've read it looks like SE wants you all to craft stuff and not so much fight things. This is beta you are working for them, in a sense, and without pay.

Play the beta before you start talking. No crafting leves avaliable, only 3k gil to work with, and some SINGLE crafting materials cost more than that. Also, no recipes, so good luck finding out what makes what.

Your options are to grind for mats and pray, log for mats, mine for mats and harvest for mats.

[Rustyhagun]

Why do classes like Lancer have MP? I get the uniformity argument but it's a physical damage class...

Because in XIV you can equip any skill you learn from another class, that was played with. So for example if by chance you played with a caster and learned some skills to go with your gladiator, you now have some spells to make your gladiator a hybrid dark knight or paladin and you have the mp to utilize.

[Meresgi]

This isn't 2002 anymore, those rules no longer apply.

With all of the options today, players don't stick around as long as they used to if a game isn't fun at the start. We also have to get over the, "well those players don't belong here then" mentality if we're going to move forward.

Personally, i'd like a lot of players filling up my world. More than just ex FFXI players.

Honestly...if people can't stick with a MMO to try the middle of the curve..fuck them. Sure the grind to max level is annoying as hell, but by the middle you know damn well if the game is worth sticking around with or not. Looking at WoW or Aion again, WoW's first 20 lvls are absolute shit, even the first 60. Yeah they are changing it but once you got past that the game is pretty fun until the end where it's just a ladder grind system. Aion's first 25lvls were a fucking blast...then the game just dies right there and then. The first 20lvls or so of FFXI were shit, the middle was fun.

The first 20 levels are just as important now as anything after that

Not really, sure they want to hold your attention. But if you're willing to drop 50-60 bucks just to try a MMO out...I looked into any MMO I was trying out, went to the forums, saw what was up, watched videos or talked to friends that played it so I knew what to expect before plunking the cash. If the first few lvls of FFXIV are a grind but the hump comes at lvl 15 or 20, then you can suffer through less then a week of playtime to gain abilities to help you out.

Honestly most games give you the meat of all your skills at the mid range and you get some cool fancy disco lightball moves at the very end.

[Gokulo]

I don't know if you can do it already or not, but they should make it possible to turn off the ability tooltip of the action bar. That stuff gets useless fast and just hides a lot of screen sometimes >.<

[ascalon]

Quote from Blizzard recently revealed that many players quit WoW without getting past the first ten levels. Ten. That's the mentality that SE will have to deal with. 10 levels in WoW is what, 2 hours play max? And most of that is relatively engaging, sign-posted quests right from the start (or will be, if you've seen any of the Cataclysm videos.)

FFXIV, on the other hand... Whats the highest rank anyone got in 2 hours of beta? It needs to be able to compete. Sure WoW has five years of expansion and development on FFXIV but the mentality of "give the players cool stuff to do that makes them feel good about the game" in the opening level still stands.

Getting one-shotted by an aldgoat because you don't know how the /check system works is only fun once xD

[Mife]

Quick questions if they havent been thrown out there in the beta do you have the ability to fullscreen and if so does SLI work or Crossfire? I know i saw the E3 video about the 3DVision and should mean that SLI will take in affect but i was Curious to see if we could get someone who is playing the beta and have SLI or Crossfire confirm this because if not that means everyone needs a 5850/5870 or GTX 480/GTX470 to run it at max spec's? lol

What another article said -->

You need a near top-of-the-line computer to play this game at 1920×1200 resolution and get 30FPS. The FFXIV Benchmark tool doesn’t seem far off if things stay as they are. ..

I myself have 2x GTX 470 and would like the extra money i spent on the card to be at use instead just something thats a extra power Consumption lol

[mastamind]

FFXIV, on the other hand... Whats the highest rank anyone got in 2 hours of beta? It needs to be able to compete. Sure WoW has five years of expansion and development on FFXIV but the mentality of "give the players cool stuff to do that makes them feel good about the game" in the opening level still stands.
D

I got to 8 in about 2-2.5 hours as lancer doing nothing but grinding and a finding new camps when to many people arrived.

[Alderaan]

Not really, sure they want to hold your attention. But if you're willing to drop 50-60 bucks just to try a MMO out...I looked into any MMO I was trying out, went to the forums, saw what was up, watched videos or talked to friends that played it so I knew what to expect before plunking the cash.

You can do all that and still get fucked over, no matter how much time you spend researching. Hell you even said so for Aion.

The Aion beta was fantastic, minus the 4 hour queue to log in due to so many people being excited. The first 25-30 levels were really fun also. There was just nothing to do once you were done leveling that wasn't player created content.

The difference was content and not glaring mechanics that leave much to be desired. I should however, not refer to them and terrible mechanics because that's not really fair. They are obviously intended choices made by SE. I can only say that i was expecting a little more up to date and fluid combat mechanics. The speed matters not to me.

[ascalon]

I got to 8 in about 2-2.5 hours as lancer doing nothing but grinding and a finding new camps when to many people arrived.

Interesting. I didn't get that far but was 'enjoying' trying to roll a character on the same server as my friend. I also saw a lot of people just running aimlessly around Limsa not knowing WTF to do. That isn't good.

Mind you, I hear they have improved how the starting class quest works and signposts new players, but i haven't done it yet. That's a job for tuesday's test, as is playing with crafting and the Market Ward/retainers.

[Ramsey]

Agreed, you all are complaining way to soon. Wanting bigger burst spells?

You missread, the only time burst was mentioned was in discussing how DoW should work vs DoM, no one said bigger burst, they just said bursty in comparison, which it is at the moment, but the overall damage is much lower, and it's limited by MP. This is a problem that can be fixed by retail in a variety of ways, people were simply discussing those possibilities, no one knows what retail will be like yet.

Honestly...if people can't stick with a MMO to try the middle of the curve..fuck them.

That may be a perfectly fine personal outlook for you, but it's not a fine personal outlook for SE. They want players, apparently they're a business or something. FFXI was tipped so hard top heavy, it wasn't necessarily that the only content required you to be 75, but most of the content required you do a good bit of research about how/where to go to do said thing, because almost nothing was presented to the player without you having to go look for it.

Also early game FFXI was let's face it, boring as hell. I pushed through because I saw the potential the systems had, but it's pretty boring early game, only made fun by the fact that you team up.

Regardless, the early play has to be fun for people to stick around, most people don't sit down to play a game and say "Oh, well this is boring as hell, but I can see the potential this game has to become fun so I'll keep going." And honestly they shouldn't have to, it's a game. SE's fixed a lot of those problems with a more enjoyable combat system, guildleves (at least if they reduce the cooldown) etc etc. So I have faith, but right now people are just discussing what fixes if any DoM needs to be just as fun early on as DoM classes, and not scare people away by making them once again shunned for party play a la BLM from FFXI for the last 6+ years.

[Cichy]

Agreed, you all are complaining way to soon. Wanting bigger burst spells? Wait till you get tier III and up you will see you your bursts. You have alchemy that will provide potions to recover mp and food that will give you regen to mp. If you have a buff caster (Bard? anyone, maybe another as well) that will help with mp recovery, there you go. SE wants a balance to everything for every discipline to have a purpose in XIV. You can't loose mp or alchemy looses 20% of its market. caster will be glass canons at higher levels, trust me, so you looking at melees now because you feel underpowered? C'mon look ahead to what your class will become. SE knows what their doing they've had 8 years of experience.

Also, maybe you all in beta should start making stuff, you might be surprised at what you come out with. Because from everything that I've read it looks like SE wants you all to craft stuff and not so much fight things. This is beta you are working for them, in a sense, and without pay.

Exactly. In my 4 hours of beta I maybe made 1k gil and havent even had a chance to buy a ether or a potion but like I said, using Red Lotus Blade used up 10mp each time. Therefore, I can see how many melee classes will require meds. Like Rustyhagun pointed out, its not that simple to fix the MP issue and once he reminded me of alchemy it even makes more sense. SE wants alchemy to be usefull in this game and how can it be useful if potions will not be a common item?