FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[Hyan]

i hope there are no npc to fix equipment. More interaction between players = a better mmo

But also much more convenient systems in place so that getting someone to repair your stuff won't be a pain in the ass. These two together would definitely make for a good player interaction without taking away from the enjoyment and convenience that having NPC's would allow.

[nekoshoonen]

Yeah a simple and quick way to fix things is needed for sure

[Cureslime]

A few worries I have about item decay:
- Tank classes could be screwed because they're the only ones typically being hit regularly. They're similarly screwed if there will be a huge durability hit on death.

- If decay makes things too expensive people are going to skip most of the game's content. People will always gravitate towards content that provides the most money or shinies per hour but a huge monetary barrier will stop them from doing content altogether.

- Like people have said, if the system of having other PCs repair items for you is too annoying it will just frustrate people. There are like 30 equipment slots now, all with decaying items in them. Repairing one by one would be a huge pain in the ass. I'm not looking forward to dozens of people shouting "NEED FIX WEPON AND ARMER, WILL TIP!!" at all times in every city either.

The most important thing we can do is leave good feedback to S-E so that the game doesn't release with a shitty system in place.

[Hyan]

Hopefully little trinkets don't decay >__>;;;

Tank classes could be otherwise cheaper in terms of food and armor price to compensate for more rapid durability decrease. Or every class tanks sometimes. Few weeks to go 'till we find out.

[Ramsey]

Why does it need to be black and white ?

Well if we're talking primarily about item durability/decay, it has to be black and white or no one will ever use other players to repair their items, unless they just so happen to be in your party and willing to do it for less than the price of the NPC.

Also -- Lucavi -- the way you make things like this not easily exploitable is by placing NPCs in the game that -can- repair, but putting them only in major cities, and having them charge a significantly larger sum than the cost of the materials.

What this does, is forces players to keep their prices under the NPC prices by a reasonable margin. By putting a measure like this in place, you can prevent people from jacking the prices too high, while also allowing those with a fear of socializing with others an option to pay for the convenience of not having to do so.

Also, I just want to say that while I don't think it's going to be as easy to make money (nor do I think money will be as worthless) as it is in games like WoW, I also have a feeling it's going to be a lot easier to make at least a modest income in FFXIV than it was in XI. Guildleves and things like that provide an income for players.

FFXI's economy right now is very closed, there's only a few good ways to make money that don't require large amount of bank to invest. So while I'd be very afraid if I suddenly had to worry about durability in FFXI, I'm not so worried about it in XIV, because I have a feeling I'll have a more reasonable income even without crafting.

[mundie]

Hopefully little trinkets don't decay >__>;;;

Tank classes could be otherwise cheaper in terms of food and armor price to compensate for more rapid durability decrease. Or every class tanks sometimes. Few weeks to go 'till we find out.

What about different rates of durability loss depending on the material of the armour/weapon in question?

[Hyan]

That actually sounds quite likely. Good guess.

Also, I have a good feeling that making money will be pretty easy, but you'll be spending it on a lot more than just occasional armor and weapons too. If you want the very best stuff, normal playing session won't cut it. I doubt anyone except those with need for the +1's will have to ever really farm or anything though.

[Ramsey]

That actually sounds quite likely. Good guess.

Also, I have a good feeling that making money will be pretty easy, but you'll be spending it on a lot more than just occasional armor and weapons too. If you want the very best stuff, normal playing session won't cut it. I doubt anyone except those with need for the +1's will have to ever really farm or anything though.

Well and the Haubergeon equivalent etc. I mean it's understandable that if you want the really awesome gear you'll have to work a little harder, but that's reasonable. I don't think maintaining your gear will be a bank buster though.

Also, different pieces of gear DO have different durability ratings, if the description on lantern shield is to be believed. A lot of the game's mechanics have been revealed first through flavor text, and the lantern shield says it requires much higher maintenance than most shields due to all the parts.

[Lucavi]

Also -- Lucavi -- the way you make things like this not easily exploitable is by placing NPCs in the game that -can- repair, but putting them only in major cities, and having them charge a significantly larger sum than the cost of the materials.

Zomg then you're like WoW and everyone cries to mommy! FFXI purists want it one way or no way at all. I want whatever is fair and doesn't penalize the player for not trusting people who are going to turn out to be botters and cheaters anyway. If it means having a little more free will and self-sufficiency, then so be it, IMO.

When you're forced to rely on others for everything, you're setting yourself up to be doublecrossed down the road. Just look at what HNM LSes have become.

[mundie]

But are we assuming durability decays as a result of being hit in combat, or maybe as a consequence of dying, or both maybe?

If it is solely part of being hit I suppose different rates of decay depending on materials makes sense to me. If you're wearing metal it'll take more hits before it's bent out of shape than if you're wearing cloth, and it seems fair to different roles in a given party setup.

If durability decays solely based on death it would make more sense to decay armour at a set amount for everyone, i believe.

If it's both you could combine both types of decay and i think it'd be pretty fair.

Thoughts?

[nekoshoonen]

if you want to play a game where social interaction isn't vital go and play a single player rpg. You can have your fill of npc interaction there

[Hyan]

Comparing HNM LS's and crafters.. That's a bit of a stretch imo.

[Alderaan]

Comparing HNM LS's and crafters.. That's a bit of a stretch imo.

Both are out to monopolize and both hate competition.

I'd still prefer a system where currency isn't a deciding factor in completing or obtaining content.

How that would be balanced to not fuck over crafters, i don't know.

[Caerith]

They already said that shit wont break and that you don't need to trade them your gear for them to repair it a few months back.

Don't worry about such things. SE's dumb, but they're not THAT dumb.

Link please? To them saying that you won't need to trade gear on repair and shit not breaking on repair, not to SE being dumb. I did not see that news item.

Maybe the repair system will work like examining a player in FFXI, then the viewer has the option to repair any said equipment the person desires with a confirmation window to accept the repair.

This way you can see all equipment at once and quickly repair everything all in one screen.

And I highly doubt you won't be able to find a crafter to repair your stuff. Its like shouting for a teleport. By the time the game is sufficiently developed, Im sure everyone will have dabbled in a few crafts. I mean just look at people with multiple 75 jobs with multiple mules with 100+ crafts on them all.

I'd love to log on to receive 50 tells to fix their gear. Means more cash flow for me.

If your willing to pay an NPC 50k to repair your gear. I'll lv the craft and only charge 30k. It'll balance out in the end due to request/demand.

I had most crafts at 60 and goldsmithing at ~97.8+6 when I retired from FFXI. I came on, AH'd my NQs, and collected fat gil from my HQs. I also would get tells to cut elemental ores for people-- "more cash flow for me," but there's a difference between spending half an hour and making 5mil vs. spending two hours and making maybe 100k. As I appreciated the business and I liked my client, I won't complain, but if you have 50 people lined up, even if it only takes a minute or two on each of them, how are you going to find the time to spend the money you make?

I used crafting profits to fund my jobs. What time I had away from crafting, I spent playing. If I had to spend all my time in-game fixing Haguns, I would get maybe half an hour a day to play. Maybe I'm the only asshole who ever took up crafting and you'll have capped-craft people hanging around at Aetheryte camps to solicit your business, but I doubt it.

[Hyan]

Both are out to monopolize and both hate competition.

I'd still prefer a system where currency isn't a deciding factor in completing or obtaining content.

How that would be balanced to not fuck over crafters, i don't know.

But where does the 'doublecrossing' come into play? More than anything, when there's competition, 'customer' is the one to benefit from it. I don't think the scenario here is similar to HNM LS's at all. The crafter and the customer have different relationship than two members of an HNM LS.

Also if you get money from doing something, it's pretty much the same thing as getting straight gear or whatever from it. The other one screws crafters, the other one makes them useful. Currency is not a problem, but how you get it can be.

[BlackheartX]

Perhaps we're looking at different trees in the forest, then. You see a game where people need to cooperate, and I see a game where people understand that, and therefore exploit the fact that others must cooperate with THEM, thus taking advantage of the situation.

I have no problem with needing to rely on others... if everyone was a nice, kind, honest, trustworthy person. What happened with the HNM scene when FFXI was "a game where people have to cooperate and socialize"? What happened with the launch of NA FFXI's crafting scene when people played the "game where people have to cooperate and socialize"?

Human nature splits in many ways - some are out to legitimately help others - others are out to screw everyone else, even their own teammates, for their own goals.

I simply don't want to see another easily-exploited system, or sets of systems, like in FFXI where cheaters dominate and regular folk who simply want to "cooperate and socialize" are essentially screwed. Be it through crafting exploits, botting, or simply cornering the market and squeezing out the little guy, any system that forces me to interact strictly through humans (with their capacity for the most selfish and scathing decisions, usually done under the pretext of "hey, its just a game! Get over it!") is, in my opinion, a flawed one.

This is also a concern of mine that hasn't been spoken too. However they have 6 months left if this doesn't release in 2011. However given their previous history with the above subjects I really can't say that I'm sure their addressing these problems as anything more than an aside. Also the reliance on crafters remains to be seen. The crafter/player relationship could be tolerable or a giant pain in the ass depending on how it's handled. If they botch the implementation, the rosy idea of people helping each other is just going to turn into a giant field of exploitation and people leveling crafts to be able to sustain themselves in order to actually play and enjoy the game. Not many people want to engage in the meta-game of "Find that crafter cause shit is broke" (which is crap).

[Hyan]

IMO it's too big of a feature to be left broken come retail. It's not just something optional because shit will break and repairing it is mandatory, so if it's a huge pain in the ass it'll make the game experience simply intolerable.

[plue]

Sorry to change the topic a bit, but anyone who played in the Alpha have any information about the Archer class? Is it quite expensive to play like it was in XI? Are the abilities and damage entertaining enough to warrant the costs?

Thanks in advance, I'm having the hardest time picking which class I'm going to try.


EDIT:

As for the repairing system, the only game I've played with repairs was Diablo II. The repairs there weren't really all too big of a part, just something occasional you had to do. I'm not really sure what the point of repairs is, it just sounds like a pain in the ass, which really serves no purpose.

[Hyan]

As for the repairing system, the only game I've played with repairs was Diablo II. The repairs there weren't really all too big of a part, just something occasional you had to do. I'm not really sure what the point of repairs is, it just sounds like a pain in the ass, which really serves no purpose.

It can give a greater purpose to crafters as well as work as a good death penalty.

[BlackheartX]

Sorry to change the topic a bit, but anyone who played in the Alpha have any information about the Archer class? Is it quite expensive to play like it was in XI? Are the abilities and damage entertaining enough to warrant the costs?

Thanks in advance, I'm having the hardest time picking which class I'm going to try.


EDIT:

As for the repairing system, the only game I've played with repairs was Diablo II. The repairs there weren't really all too big of a part, just something occasional you had to do. I'm not really sure what the point of repairs is, it just sounds like a pain in the ass, which really serves no purpose.

On this unrelated note has anyone tried to desynth anything while crafting?