FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[Zubis]

While doing a mission a NPC told me she had marked the map for me so I'd know where to go. Anyone who has figured out what this said mark looks like? It's pretty nifty that they actually show you where to go (comparing with FFXI), but I'm starting to doubt it's actually working as intended. Perhaps I'm just stupid.

[Caerith]

It can give a greater purpose to crafters as well as work as a good death penalty.

Crafters already serve the highest purpose: profit.

'Sides, durability isn't gonna be anything but a nuisance to "hardcore" players-- no matter what the system ends up being, anybody reading this thread will figure out a way around it. It's gonna be death to casual players though. That might not seem like a bad thing, but it means death to casual gamer cashflow too.

SE has probably said somewhere that they're planning to make the game accessible to both casual and hardcore players or something. If durability is the feature that breaks the casual camel's back, they're gonna start to fiddle with other needles in the haystack and pretty soon you've forgotten how this metaphor goes and it isn't pretty. SE has a history, post-CoP, of trying to cater to casual cash and lure the casual gamer away from WoW: campaign replaces content, $10 jerkoff expansions give gear equivalent to Usukane, CoP gets nerfed, etc. Has "hardcore" content seen similar expansion? Since Salvage, the last "hard" content I can think of is ZNM... and judging by the skins on the Aurum/Enkidu/Oracle gear, I think you can guess how much effort they put into it.

My concern is that SE is gonna screw up durability for the casual gamer then try to rebalance until finally three years from now they either revamp durability or remove it.

[Caerith]

While doing a mission a NPC told me she had marked the map for me so I'd know where to go. Anyone who has figured out what this said mark looks like? It's pretty nifty that they actually show you where to go (comparing with FFXI), but I'm starting to doubt it's actually working as intended. Perhaps I'm just stupid.

Orange circles, orange arrows, that sort of thing?

[Zubis]

Orange circles, orange arrows, that sort of thing?

Yeah, but none of them are new after I accepted the mission and I'd imagine it looks different since it's a waypoint for a mission and not a entrance of some sort.

edit: I found it, no mark at all despite the fact the NPC told me she'd put down a mark. Somewhat a disappointment since I was hoping for a bit better directions from SE.

[Hyan]

Crafters already serve the highest purpose: profit.

'Sides, durability isn't gonna be anything but a nuisance to "hardcore" players-- no matter what the system ends up being, anybody reading this thread will figure out a way around it. It's gonna be death to casual players though. That might not seem like a bad thing, but it means death to casual gamer cashflow too.

SE has probably said somewhere that they're planning to make the game accessible to both casual and hardcore players or something. If durability is the feature that breaks the casual camel's back, they're gonna start to fiddle with other needles in the haystack and pretty soon you've forgotten how this metaphor goes and it isn't pretty. SE has a history, post-CoP, of trying to cater to casual cash and lure the casual gamer away from WoW: campaign replaces content, $10 jerkoff expansions give gear equivalent to Usukane, CoP gets nerfed, etc. Has "hardcore" content seen similar expansion? Since Salvage, the last "hard" content I can think of is ZNM... and judging by the skins on the Aurum/Enkidu/Oracle gear, I think you can guess how much effort they put into it.

My concern is that SE is gonna screw up durability for the casual gamer then try to rebalance until finally three years from now they either revamp durability or remove it.

So giving crafters stuff to fix ain't gonna give them more profit? Right.

Your post really doesn't make much sense. If it's balanced to casual players, and it doesn't affect hardcore gamers as much- then so be it? What would "catering to hardcore" mean when talking about a durability system, anyway? Is it the same as the dreaded "exp needed to level to 75 cut down considerably, massive 'hardcore' population drop followed soon after' update years ago?

Sounds good to me, but I'm more in the middle than anything.

[Caerith]

Yeah, but none of them are new after I accepted the mission and I'd imagine it looks different since it's a waypoint for a mission and not a entrance of some sort.

Could be it's not working as intended, could be you just haven't looked far enough on your map. Either way, if you're unclear you should feedback it and request something better.

[Hyan]

Could be it's not working as intended, could be you just haven't looked far enough on your map. Either way, if you're unclear you should feedback it and request something better.

Yeah, if she says "I'll mark it down for you" and she didn't, then you just found an alpha bug, congrats! Be sure to report it.

[Cureslime]

I figure the system will be designed so that very high quality items will be very expensive to repair while items than any casual can obtain would be very cheap to repair.

preemptive NDA'd

[BlackheartX]

I figure the system will be designed so that very high quality items will be very expensive to repair while items than any casual can obtain would be very cheap to repair.

No desynthing with blacksmithing yet unless somebody found some secret recipes they aren't sharing. I was failing synths left and right around blacksmith level 4 or 5 and gave up on it. The lag moving between screens was so high it wasn't worth screwing around with to me. I'll give it a more thorough look in beta.

Didn't get around to trying Archer but the archers I saw were mowing down enemies like nobody's business. The class looked pretty fun to me. Hard to say how expensive the class is...basic arrows are cheap but the specialty arrows were like 40-50g a pop from vendors. I'm sure woodworkers will be able to make them for far cheaper when the time comes.

Yeah Archer looks like what I'm going to play till Assassian drops.

[Almalexia]

Didn't Everquest 2 have a marketplace similar to this ?, assuming we aren't all jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Yes, except (5 years ago, anyway) you had to be logged in and inside your apartment in order to run a bazaar.

There was no auction house. Instead, there was a market board that listed everybody running a bazaar. You could search by player, by item, browse, compare prices, etc. When you were ready to make a purchase, you had to go to the apartment building, type in the character's name and buy it from their bazaar. You could buy items directly from the market board, but that incurred a small handling fee.

Imagine: FFXI with a worldwide searchable bazaar system.

[Jinko]

if you want to play a game where social interaction isn't vital go and play a single player rpg

I see this all the time and it's no less annoying any of those time, just because we are all playing together in a big world doesn't mean we should or have to interact with one another.

Granted the main point of MMO's are these reasons, but I don't believe crafting and repairing should require us to rely on other people.

[Hyan]

It's good that 99,9% of new MMO's coming out and existing ones are made just for you then!

Exceptions? Baaad.

[LD]

I think the people who want to play in an MMO, but like to solo most of the time aren't being unreasonable, but are looking for something most MMOs don't offer.

I realized that in most MMOs, the only way another player can affect your play time (outside of KS or PvP) is if they're partied or otherwise grouped with you. In WoW, even with the phasing, it only changes for you. In RO, you can Tag stuff, but it's just a painting. In FFXI, if you only merit and do endgame stuff with your LS, everyone else may as well be an NPC with a slightly better AI (sometimes). I mean, Conquest and Wintergrasp allow people who don't participate in it to reap some benefits, but are you really going to be doing anything vastly different from what you would otherwise?

I think when I solo, I somehow expect the actions of others to affect my day in ways I didn't expect, so it feels less like ticking down a set of numbers and more like I'm on an adventure. Unfortunately, while I don't think that's unreasonable, I also realize it's kinda hard to pull off in a balanced way. Beyond getting your shit rocked by a guy you didn't see coming, there's no real incidental aspect to gameplay that can be negative at one moment and then positive the next.

I have high hopes for FFXIV, but this isn't one of them. As much as I'd like, say, another dude starting a bar fight and doing so much damage that I can't go to that bar anymore, or a guy defeating a local warlord, allowing settlers to establish a new town, or a battle causing enough damage to cause a rock slide, forcing me to take another route won't happen.

The only MMO that can and has pulled that off is EVE and that game is as boring as shit drying with a white background.

[Kaylia]

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

That might be more your style.

I'm all for people being helpful, and I'll certainly repair friends or ls members gear for free. Assuming there is an NPC cost to repairing items, if you just start repairing anyones gear for free then you'll end up with every lazy random constantly asking for it.

If you give people something for nothing then they will always expect it. They should just level the craft themselves.

Actually, people in that one might be more mature than half of the endgame community. It definitively feel like I was watching kids fight for their toys half of the time.

I find it funny that people talk how much they love the community, yet, seek personal profit all the time at the expense of other. There is some nice hypocrisis here.

I didn't meet many friends paying for teleport or crafting fee, and I'm sure it's the same for most people. That kind of social intereaction isn't really needed.

if repairing equipment was free and instant, then what would be the point of having durability loss in the first place ?

You see, it's a very complicated concept on the net, but people tend to be less of a fag when they are not in competition or dealing with loot/money. FFXI success has a lot to do with the fact that people were struggling together toward a common goal (getting ride of crabs all over the world).

Anything that take the focus away from money and put it back on player helping each other is a plus, and help the overall mood of the games.

[Cureslime]

Competition won't be as bad in FFXIV because casual players won't be forced to quit the game around level 12.

In FFXI I couldn't make money for shit because everything was camped 24/7 and people had the AH on lockdown. I started WoW around the time Lich King came out at level 1 and by the time I quit a year later I had bought every gear piece, vanity item, and pet/mount that had been released AND still had 70k gold to spare. Never touched an AH mod or AH bot and had to work around other people abusing them.

Casuals make things better for everyone as long as important content is instanced (as it should be.)

[Hyan]

In other news, the stamina gauge really reminds me of Demon's Souls now that I think about it.

[Caerith]

Actually, people in that one might be more mature than half of the endgame community. It definitively feel like I was watching kids fight for their toys half of the time.

I find it funny that people talk how much they love the community, yet, seek personal profit all the time at the expense of other. There is some nice hypocrisis here.

I didn't meet many friends paying for teleport or crafting fee, and I'm sure it's the same for most people. That kind of social intereaction isn't really needed.

You see, it's a very complicated concept on the net, but people tend to be less of a fag when they are not in competition or dealing with loot/money. FFXI success has a lot to do with the fact that people were struggling together toward a common goal (getting ride of crabs all over the world).

Anything that take the focus away from money and put it back on player helping each other is a plus, and help the overall mood of the games.

There's another factor that you're overlooking, though. It's not just loot and money. It's time.

And, besides, the current description of durability isn't about helping people-- it's about saving people. Every event alliance, exp party, or merit group is going to need a crafter before they can start. Anyone who neglects crafters becomes unplayably gimped. A crafter saying "no" might as well run over someone's puppy.

They should invert this. Vanguard had a system where instead of your gear decaying, it stayed at 100%. You could get a crafter to buff your gear and get temporary bonuses up to like 150%. Maybe the bonuses are just enhancing the accuracy and attack, maybe they're giving weapons an en-effect or changing their damage type from physical to elemental, who knows, let SE figure it out. The difference is that it's not necessary but nice to have. It would change things from "dude, plz, i gotta merit, where r u" to "can you please buff our gear before this mission?"

Crafters could buff people for free if they wanted to, merit parties could spend a little extra coin to get their blades sharpened, and people heading to sky or whatever would have a demand for these services. It beats everyone having a demand, in any case.

[plue]

Competition won't be as bad in FFXIV because casual players won't be forced to quit the game around level 12.

In FFXI I couldn't make money for shit because everything was camped 24/7 and people had the AH on lockdown. I started WoW around the time Lich King came out at level 1 and by the time I quit a year later I had bought every gear piece, vanity item, and pet/mount that had been released AND still had 70k gold to spare. Never touched an AH mod or AH bot and had to work around other people abusing them.

Casuals make things better for everyone as long as important content is instanced (as it should be.)

What you said would put some people off from a game. If you can achieve everything you ever want in a game in one year, it's lifespan if pretty limited. This is where FFXI shined for me, you played for a long time, and could accomplish more and more things as you went along.

Also, I'm personally not a bit fan of instanced content, it kind of kills the ambiance of a multi-player game when you can't compete and share the world with others.

[solracht]

And, besides, the current description of durability isn't about helping people-- it's about saving people. Every event alliance, exp party, or merit group is going to need a crafter before they can start.

They said in older interviews that they wanted to let crafters enjoy and see the game by choosing crafting as their main class. Perhaps something like this is exactly what they have in mind: Making you want crafters in your Linkshell/Guild/group just like you want healers, tanks, etc.

The worst might be yet to come: Maybe they'll even add certain abilities that cause durability damage instead of HP damage in some endgame events or fights.


I won't bother giving my opinion on the whole durability thing as I think whether it's annoying or not will depend on the way they implement it, but I think we need to stop thinking of crafters like in other games. It's not supposed to be a side-game to do while you level your main choice of combat class, but something that can work as your main choice of class (unless they've changed their views on it now).

One last thing: There are crafting guildleves. This means leveling a craft is less about throwing money at it this time around. Without a big money investment needed to level it, I doubt they'll give it a big money reward (for example, like in XI).

[Alderaan]

What you said would put some people off from a game. If you can achieve everything you ever want in a game in one year, it's lifespan if pretty limited. This is where FFXI shined for me, you played for a long time, and could accomplish more and more things as you went along.

Also, I'm personally not a bit fan of instanced content, it kind of kills the ambiance of a multi-player game when you can't compete and share the world with others.

Sounds like you'd enjoy Vanguard. Huge open world, a ridiculous number of dungeons and none of them instanced.

Also many would argue that the huge time investment required to get anything done in XI was a poor game mechanic of having to compete for content.