FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[AshTS]

I know back in this thread, there was talk of making DoH more relevant to the end game. You don't think having most of the HNM dropping rare mats instead of weapons and armour. (Not 100% mind you) and forcing you to find a crafter to do something with it would be a viable idea?

Some things would have to be in place, like a 0% rate to destroy the base item and the like.

But, say Fafnir dropped some blue ore, and a crafter with enough skill could either make you Ridill or Hrotti (I know Hrotti was a joke, but you get the point) It would almost be taking the token system from WoW, and instead of giving these tokens to an NPC vendor, you find a crafter to do it for you.

Since crafting is so intense (Well, more so than XI/WoW etc) I am sure the discussions on how to properly synth Ridill (Or going for an HQ) would fuel crafting threads for quite some time. And one Ridill might be better than the next. Maybe a little more DMG, a little more durability (Depending on the skill of the crafter and other factors) I don't think making a Ridill without it's key ability would be too smart however.

So, am I completely off base with this or what?

[Hyan]

In regular battles? No, they can and should be worthless. There is no way to make a system like that that works.

Aye. No one should level them for combat, but for crafting which is their purpose.

[Enigma]

Meh to that. Much more rewarding, yes, but not nearly enough to offset all of the work and frustration that went into it. It's not an exponential-- or even proportional-- return on investment for most.

I see this as crafters being able to work harder to stack their odds rather than relying on insane casino odds to craft HQs. There was nothing cool about 1% chance maximum on HQs.

Maybe, but again, the difficulty of FFXI was why I played XI and not WoW. Luck was also a factor, some people would get a nice piece of gear in 1 kill, others it took like 35. The point is when you had or saw someone with multiple rare items you'd have more respect for them in the sense that they were wearing a badge of their hard work. It also separated casuals from the hardcore, and in the rare/ex cases, it made those who chose to camp shit rather than buy it stand out a little bit more; for we all know a big bank account irl could easily mean nice buy-able shit in game.

As for the crazy hard HQ rates... well.. I guess that was a better system for XI seeing as crafters may have spent a lot of gil to level their craft, and in XIV you can virtually do it at no cost, so I guess it wouldn't be fair to have them make gear worth a fuck ton due to insane HQ rates.

However, SE has show somewhat of a belief in inequality in the sense that some gear IS indeed, made so to be extremely hard to get, IE: Relic Weapons. I would guess those rare HQ rates take root somewhere in their ideals of what all should get, or only some.

But yeah... anywho!

[Kachi]

Since crafting is so intense (Well, more so than XI/WoW etc) I am sure the discussions on how to properly synth Ridill (Or going for an HQ) would fuel crafting threads for quite some time. And one Ridill might be better than the next. Maybe a little more DMG, a little more durability (Depending on the skill of the crafter and other factors) I don't think making a Ridill without it's key ability would be too smart however.

So, am I completely off base with this or what?

It sounds good, but so far it doesn't seem that crafting is that intense. More involved, but still very simple. The "right" way to do something seems very clear, and I don't think there will be much discussion about it.

I don't dislike your idea though. I just don't think the current system is the complex foundation you were building it upon.

[AshTS]

Sure doesn't, Kachi.

I only took Smithing to around 12ish in the Alpha, I was hopefully thinking that it would get more and more complex as you leveled it and not the same few options given.

Point taken regardless.

[Kaylia]

I know back in this thread, there was talk of making DoH more relevant to the end game. You don't think having most of the HNM dropping rare mats instead of weapons and armour. (Not 100% mind you) and forcing you to find a crafter to do something with it would be a viable idea?

Some things would have to be in place, like a 0% rate to destroy the base item and the like.

It's easy to make a class wanted, that's not the issue (especially with loot related dynamics). The problem is to make good gameplay dynamics that arent alienating to the players.

How hard is it to come accross the proper alliance? Are people going to like playing the class? Is one class making another useless, or they are equivalent? That kind of balance is hard enough already. I you adds more "unique reasons" to bring this and that, you end up with a system that is extremely annoying to manage.

[Cureslime]

People are going to theorycraft crafting until it's completely figured out. The only way S-E can stop that is by making a crafting system dependent on so many useless variables that only JPs who are willing to bribe S-E employees will understand how it works. I don't want that again.

Even with people synthing at optimal success rates it's easy to make the top items uber rare. If at each step of a synthesis you only have a 1/2-1/3 chance of HQ under optimal conditions, a high HQ can still be extremely valuable because the quantity of mats you need goes up exponentially with each step in the crafting process. Lots of fun to be had on the AH/Bazaar House trying to find cheap +2/+3 ores, ingots, hafts, whatever else. People who don't want to bother going through the whole process can probably synth +2 ores, treated cloths, skins, etc. and sell them for a modest profit.

On top of that I'd like to see all +2 or higher finished gear synths be bind on equip to fuel the marketplace. I don't want variable stats on gear unless it's already bound to someone. It is confusing and leads to people being dicks when trading.

[Kaylia]

People are going to theorycraft crafting until it's completely figured out. The only way S-E can stop that is by making a crafting system dependent on so many useless variables that only JPs who are willing to bribe S-E employees will understand how it works. I don't want that again.

I wish you were joking, but after the Parade gorget incident on my server, I've no trouble to believe it. There is no fucking way a jp found out the 8 items you needed for goblin drink randomly.

[Hyan]

Crafting should be complex enough, but I wonder how could they make gathering jobs the same way?

I gotta say from what little mining I tried, I had no idea what I was doing. It's hard to analyze it when the mechanics are so weird. And will each land job have different mechanics unlike crafters that most likely share the same concept?

I guess at least when it comes to mining and logging, the mechanics are the same way, but fishing and uhh herding? I've no idea.

[Kachi]

Sure doesn't, Kachi.

I only took Smithing to around 12ish in the Alpha, I was hopefully thinking that it would get more and more complex as you leveled it and not the same few options given.

Point taken regardless.

There's certainly room for growth, so I'm hoping right along next to you. But I wouldn't put it past SE to call the system as-is a finished product.

I'll be submitting plenty of feedback and suggestions as always.

[Jinko]

One would think that in the end the latency would be better due to not being capped at modem speeds? Or is this an irrelevant factor?

You are going to get about 300 ms from Europe to Japan either way you look at it.

Add ontop of that your ISP latency and SE server latency and you could be looking at 500ms+, this is why most MMO's have local regional server.

I knew someone who used to play FF11 and then moved to Japan and he said the difference in latency was like night and day, especially with macro's.

What with FF14 having faster combat, latency is going to be noticable this time round, so I'm curious how things pan out for SE.

[Hyan]

I don't see 0.3~0.5 second ping making such a massive difference.

If this game was an FPS or required very precise timing, it'd be a lot worse. But this isn't the case.

I can't believe that the game being uncapped when it comes to internet speed won't make any difference whatsoever.

[Jinko]

Try raiding in WoW with 500+ ms latency, it makes a huge difference.

Sure FF14 is nowhere near as twitchy as WoW, but like I say its faster than 11 so the latency will be a bigger issue this time round.

[Kaylia]

I don't see 0.3~0.5 second ping making such a massive difference.

If this game was an FPS or required very precise timing, it'd be a lot worse. But this isn't the case.

I can't believe that the game being uncapped when it comes to internet speed won't make any difference whatsoever.

Stunning move, outrunning an attack, claiming a monsters, avoiding gimmick like Zdei's eyes...stuff like that are heavily influenced by lag. 0.3seconds is more than enough to make the difference between success and faillure.

FFXI gameplay was a bit slower, but it was still noticeable. In WoW, any latency is very very noticeable since most fights are designed around reacting quickly. In FFXIV...who knows, but with the amount of debuffing skill that impair movements and the like, it might do a big difference.

I was hoping we would see regional server, but as long it doesnt favor jp like it did in FFXI, I guess it doesnt matter.

[Jinko]

I don't want XIV to be like WoW, I liked the fact some items were crazy hard to get and could take months of camping on end... made it so much more rewarding when you actually got the item you sought.

I think you are confussed, WoW can take several months to get certain pieces of armor/weapons.

FF11 can take years, camping or competing for an item for years is not rewarding, its a relief.

[Hyan]

FFXI gameplay was a bit slower, but it was still noticeable.

It was, but in the end, the game was capped at modem speeds too. I don't think the lag was as low as 500ms most of the time, but more than that.

At the end of the day, because XIV is faster the latency might affect it more, but it may also be unnoticeable because absolute precision isn't still required.

I think you are confussed, WoW can take several months to get certain pieces of armor/weapons.

FF11 can take years, camping or competing for an item for years is not rewarding, its a relief.

You are crossing the line.

[Kaylia]

It was, but in the end, the game was capped at modem speeds too. I don't think the lag was as low as 500ms most of the time, but more than that.

At the end of the day, because XIV is faster the latency might affect it more, but it may also be unnoticeable because absolute precision isn't still required.

The "Modem speed " is your maximum bandwidth, basically, the amount of information that can leave your pc. The ping is the time it takes for your signal to reach the servers. It's different.

The delay was most likely around ~150-200ms for NA, since the network can't possibly be much faster. Because you get the information 0.15 seconds late, and your answer is received another 0.15s later, it end up doing a big difference over someone who live right next to the server.


If FFXIV is never testing your reflex, its going to lose so depth again...but hey, you guys like oversimplified gameplay so that's a plus? right?

its a relief.

Couldnt put it better.

[Hyan]

Thanks for the connection explanation.

If FFXIV is never testing your reflex, its going to lose so depth again...but hey, you guys like oversimplified gameplay so that's a plus? right?

Yeah, chess lacks depth because it doesn't test your reflexes. Cut out the bullshit.

Also, you play MMO's so you like oversimplified gameplay, yay I guess?

[AshTS]

The delay was most likely around ~150-200ms for NA, since the network can't possibly be much faster. Because you get the information 0.15 seconds late, and your answer is received another 0.15s later, it end up doing a big difference over someone who live right next to the server.

So, the worse case scenario, to and from, adding it all together was still slower than literally, the blink of the human eye.

As for skill required, I think MMOs are built around more of a strategic end than button reflex. Only so many ways one can stand out of fire, right? I am not downgrading how important skill is, but in a strict PVE setting, you can only ask for so much.

I do favor more fast paced encounters however. I enjoyed Archimonde more than I enjoyed Fafnir. But, I enjoyed Limbus more than I enjoyed most instances in WoW. (This is for clarification, don't quote this and give me some FFXI/WoW comparison or dribble)

The difference between a competent player, and a non-competent one was huge. The differences between competent players in MMOs isn't that great. (There are exceptions, granted) So, reflex testing or no, either you get an encounter or you don't.

[Enigma]

I think you are confussed, WoW can take several months to get certain pieces of armor/weapons.

FF11 can take years, camping or competing for an item for years is not rewarding, its a relief.

Really? I think it's quite a pleasantly rewarding "high" walking around with an item very few active users on the server had. I've never personally played WoW, but I had some non-gamer type friends tell me about their WoW gear. From what I understand you can pretty much go from nothing to one of the best on server in like 3 months of like ~10 hr days.

imho there is no reward in being able to amass a perfect character in a few months.. once again; it's just one man's opinion though, however I know some like-minded people who would argue the same.

When all is said, it just comes down to how hardcore of a player you are; I know if SE decided to change their ways and make the game a cake-walk for everyone I wouldn't play.

I agree, it is more of a relief, but it's a good thing it's that way; it's the after-effect of knowing you worked your ass off, or got really lucky. Either way, relief is rewarding.