FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[Lucavi]

I don't see that much "twitch" in FFXIV, but I can't really reinforce my point without using outside examples, which seems to be banned by the sexy, sexy gavel of Silverbreeze, so I must relent.

I will say this, though: the most "twitch" I ever felt in FFXI was dodging some hair-raising One-shot-turned-towards-me move from a mob that I either Super Jumped away from, or third eyed (pre-seigan). That's it, really. I can think of a handful (and a small one at that) of "twitch" elements in FFXI, including clutch stuns at the right moments.

Even ballista, a form of PVP that usually brings out the twitchest of twitch in games, was decidedly un-twitch. You could try and pop out a surprise WS, and if the target was all of 3 feet away from you, you were out of range and lost your TP. You could chase down a character mashing that jump macro and constantly be out of range. You could be casting that massive AOE spell, hoping to burn them all down, when your one target out of 7 gets a foot out of range and the whole spell fails. Oh, you died too, to a slugwinder from a ranger behind that tree over there.

SE MMOs will never be "twitch" so long as the latency and range mechanics are so damned slow, and yes, they ARE slow compared to others out there. Its not just the speed - its the range issues that cause you to not be able to attack your target if they aren't mashed up against you. Its the lack of freedom of movement to go where you want to in relation to the mob and attack what side you want.

Thankfully, some of these things are being addressed in FFXIV. Range has been adjusted, there are faster attacks and thankfully, seems to be less delay between attacks coming to us in Beta. Positional attacks mean something this time, and even though it still feels wonky when you take off your target lock (SE should impliment attack swing animations while running to the side - left or right -, just with lower damage or lower accuracy), its getting better.

I've never felt that twitch was bad because twitch felt like I was properly anticipating what my opponent was going to throw out, or properly maintaining my momentum in a fight that could easily swing one way or another. The only time I feel things are getting out of hand in FFXI or FFXIV is if I go on a whiff-fest, and that's only because the attacks with a lance are so slow that each of those whiffs feels absolutely grueling when I'm anticipating a fat mob attack.

That waiting - that... "tacticalness" you speak of, doesn't feel all that tactical. It feels like watching a big prisoner slowly approach me with a shiv and giggle to himself.

[Hyan]

I guess the alpha version of XIV isn't all that tactical in the first 20 ranks, then? :D

[Lucavi]

Not really, but as I said earlier, not being tactical OR twitch doesn't make it unenjoyable. The game still has, to me, that "hook" that the first one did when I fell in love with it nearly a decade ago. It's still the my personal most anticipated game of the year, without a doubt, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.

Unlike many around here, just because I like a game doesn't mean I ignore its flaws. However, just because I realize that its flawed doesn't mean that I dislike the game. I loved that flawed, buggy mess of a MMO FFXI until botting started to affect me, so yeah, no game has to be perfect for me, just fun.

[Hyan]

Still hoping, either way!

[Cureslime]

There are lots of ways to make fights tactically challenging without requiring instant reaction times. Not challenging as in beating a world champion chess player or designing a nuclear reactor but challenging enough that you feel you've accomplished something worthwhile in a game. It still is a game made to be profitable though. You're going to lose 90% of your customers if you make the battles too complicated. Look at...certain other MMOs...where millions of players whine and call for nerfs whenever a boss is released that can't be tank and spanked down with auto-attacks.

Party composition and proper gearing are where tactics play most of a role in MMOs IMO.

[Lucavi]

There are lots of ways to make fights tactically challenging without requiring instant reaction times. Not challenging as in beating a world champion chess player or designing a nuclear reactor but challenging enough that you feel you've accomplished something worthwhile in a game. It still is a game made to be profitable though. You're going to lose 90% of your customers if you make the battles too complicated. Look at...certain other MMOs...where millions of players whine and call for nerfs whenever a boss is released that can't be tank and spanked down with auto-attacks.

Party composition and proper gearing are where tactics play most of a role in MMOs IMO.

That company is making money hand over fist despite the whining. The whining comes more from the fact that the company actually listens, so there's a reason to whine, so to speak. Look at FFXI - every time there's a patch update, there's tons of whining on multiple forums, including this one. Check out the rdm whining over the enmity or the sch whining over no AOE haste.

Difference is, in FFXI, there's no hope of things being adjusted - not because of player opinions or feedback, at least.

On-topic: I agree. You simply must cater to the audience you're going for. If SE was attempting to cater to ex and current FFXI players, then they don't have to do much. Slap a pretty, new and shiny coat of paint on FFXI, keep all the recent job traits and abilities and introduce them right out of the box, and make a new version of sky and Fafnir in the original box to keep all the botters good and happy. Presto: you've just secured 500k subs for the next 10 years.

I suspect they want more, however. As I said earlier; no company goes into making a sequel just shooting for the same number of subscriptions/views/purchases as the original - not right off the back, at least (FFXI isn't some 30 year later effort to "recapture the feel of the original" - its a goddamn sequel). To do this, you must IMPROVE on the original design, and more importantly, you must attract NEW blood to your product: you cannot simply design the game as a big "thank you!" to your fans - that's a charity album, not a true sequel.

SE has learned from these "other companies" you seem intent to mock, and seriously? People are fucking people. People have whined and cried about FFXI-related content since the game was in beta. It. never. changed. a. thing. SE is just now getting around to this foreign concept of listening to what one's player-base has to say.

[Hyan]

You should not speak too much. You're quite out of the loop, and it's showing.

[Lucavi]

Psh, things haven't changed that much at all, Hyan. Every day there's another thread about the latest HNM drama down in the dirtpit with the dragon and the forums ring aloud with complaints about what did or did not get buffed or nerfed.

[Hyan]

You're telling me that is your reasoning..

Don't make me repeat myself :D.

[Lucavi]

It doesn't count unless you say the name! I'm innocent!

[Senji]

Christ, ya'll need to shut the fuck up.

.

[Kachi]

Not something I'm in the habit of doing, but I'm going to /agree with Hyan.

Personally, if a game doesn't challenge me, I probably won't play it too long. Doesn't matter if it's tactical, reflexive, or both, but it better be something. Since XIV pretty much has to go the route of tactical or a hybrid, I would really like to see some depth to the tactical elements.

[Spoony]

Don't make me repeat myself

OH PLEASE GOD NO NOT MORE!!!!

[Killo]

I want a screenshot. NOW!

[Alderaan]

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to stay optimistic when all the positive feedback seems to be in comparison to XI. I've always been the biggest defender of XI but my eyes were opened when i finally stepped away for a while and saw what else was out there after 6 years. Being blindly loyal is not something i'll ever do again.

I really want XIV to be everything i hope it can be and there's no arguing the game/world looks fantastic. Unfortunately the combat and movements look as clunky as ever. Obviously i won't make up my mind until i actually get into the beta and play it myself, but so far i'm not impressed or overly excited at all.

[plue]

I'm just hoping for something fun I'm able to relax with while enjoying a couple drinks. Unfortunately, I don't react all that well when I'm drunk, so I hope that's not a major part of the game.

[Kaylia]

Also, you play MMO's so you like oversimplified gameplay, yay I guess?

Yeah, chess lacks depth because it doesn't test your reflexes. Cut out the bullshit.

Are you seriously comparing a chess game to a mmo? In MMOs, you're just reacting to shit while anticipating unavoidable script. You can talk about depth when you're asked to foresee your opponent's move far into the future, but that's not the case here and will never be.

And yes, Elcura, the AI is the limiting factor. We are seeing improvements, fortunately, but no real AI as of yet.

Stop saying AI in an argument about clever gameplay. It's a script and that's all there is to it. A script that doesn't pass turing test, and is easily predictable despite the few RNG in it.

So, the worse case scenario, to and from, adding it all together was still slower than literally, the blink of the human eye.

The difference between a competent player, and a non-competent one was huge. The differences between competent players in MMOs isn't that great. (There are exceptions, granted) So, reflex testing or no, either you get an encounter or you don't.

No, this is the best case scenario... light can only travel that fast (200 000m/s in optic cable I think). And for the matter, 0.3s is significant on the reflex level. Also, when a long sequence is delayed by 0.3s, it's bound to hurt you at time.

You can downplay it as much as you want, but when you spend 1 year trying to claim against jp with 0 claim, you would understand how annoying it can be.

Do we have an idea as to where the XIV servers are, or are planned to be, exactly? Has no one asked about regional servers, despite all the interviews?

Edit - Is it imaginable that you could have a server in Japan linked to a server in NA, so that half the playerbase won't be half a second late.. But that they can still play with eachother?

Fuck, I'm not moving to Japan just to have better XIV response times..

I'm almost certain they said japanese server in an interview...or maybe it was just the logical conclusion to "jp are mixed with na again". Anyway, everything indicate it will be the same as it was in FFXI.


You can link 2 servers together, but it would be so fucking hard to deal with (compared to a single server) I doubt anyone would go through this. You would need some sort of conflict resolving system that would be a serious pain to program.

[Murureru]

Not sure if this has already been covered but is there an FPS cap in XIV for those who have tested the Alpha phase?

It really annoyed me in XI as with anything as an alliance or dynamis etc I always had to turn all the enhancements off to play efficiently, and could never understand why they didn't remove it for the PC version as I'm guessing it was limited to 30 FPS because of the PS2.

[Gokulo]

The Alpha had 30FPS cap.

[Murureru]

That sucks, will that be changed in beta/public release?

I mean we all have these fancys graphic cards now and it seems such a waste, I'm sure most games on the PS3 run at 60fps so we should see an increase right? I would be more than happy with that but no cap at all for the PC is a must imo.