FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[Ramsey]

To support crafting I hope they only allow NPCs to repair lower quality items. Higher quality items should require higher level crafters to repair. Of course the system is going to be a serious challenge to balance and could either be really awesome or really shitty depending on how it goes.

I imagine the NPCs in town will charge significantly more money than the materials cost, well at least they better. At low levels they should charge about the same, that way newbs don't have to keep asking players to repair their weapons, but at higher levels the NPCs should charge so much that the only reason anyone would use them is if there were no players anywhere to be found with the sufficient skill.

[Chakra]

I imagine the NPCs in town will charge significantly more money than the materials cost, well at least they better. At low levels they should charge about the same, that way newbs don't have to keep asking players to repair their weapons, but at higher levels the NPCs should charge so much that the only reason anyone would use them is if there were no players anywhere to be found with the sufficient skill.

Square has a really awful time balancing things like player economy in FFXI. I'm definitely worried about the durability system. Many games with this system have the players dishing out a lot of money repairing their top notch equipment and it can be KILLER. Of course, you can level a crafting class and repair equipment yourself. However, what are the limits on how proficient you can be with multiple crafting classes? If there is a situation where you need someone to repair the gear type your character is using because you do not specialize in it, well, I find it to be quite annoying to be honest.

I don't agree that it should cost an arm and a leg if no one is around because relying on others in many situations can be frustrating and it being costly leads to many issues. One issue I immediately thought of were the game currency buyers. Those who are not above it will buy it if they need to keep up with repair costs on top of investing in gear, food/consumables, and other various necessities in game. There is a reason gold/gil/whatever farming is still a thriving business and these systems are one of the reasons for that. It sinks you.

It's a great idea in theory, don't get me wrong, but it reminds me of the leveling system they had in XI where it was possible to do it yourself solo.. just painfully slow and irritating even when using campaign. The repair system done by SE is just another system that relies on the community and you go nowhere unless you put up. Other games that allow you to be more self sufficient are greatly more popular and SE should have got a clue this time around. Of course, I could be wrong about this and when we learn more and it seems tolerable I'll eat my words, but man... I have a feeling it's gonna be the loots.

[Ramsey]

Square has a really awful time balancing things like player economy in FFXI. I'm definitely worried about the durability system. Many games with this system have the players dishing out a lot of money repairing their top notch equipment and it can be KILLER. Of course, you can level a crafting class and repair equipment yourself. However, what are the limits on how proficient you can be with multiple crafting classes? If there is a situation where you need someone to repair the gear type your character is using because you do not specialize in it, well, I find it to be quite annoying to be honest.

I don't agree that it should cost an arm and a leg if no one is around because relying on others in many situations can be frustrating and it being costly leads to many issues. One issue I immediately thought of were the game currency buyers. Those who are not above it will buy it if they need to keep up with repair costs on top of investing in gear, food/consumables, and other various necessities in game. There is a reason gold/gil/whatever farming is still a thriving business and these systems are one of the reasons for that. It sinks you.

It's a great idea in theory, don't get me wrong, but it reminds me of the leveling system they had in XI where it was possible to do it yourself solo.. just painfully slow and irritating even when using campaign. The repair system done by SE is just another system that relies on the community and you go nowhere unless you put up. Other games that allow you to be more self sufficient are greatly more popular and SE should have got a clue this time around. Of course, I could be wrong about this and when we learn more and it seems tolerable I'll eat my words, but man... I have a feeling it's gonna be the loots.

There is no limit to what crafts you can level, you can level them all. And really there's no issue with requiring mostly people to get players to repair... you can instantly warp back to town from anywhere basically. And it means you can have someone in your raid repair your stuff.

It also promotes profit for crafters which are an important aspect of the game, considering they want people to be able to focus on crafting and enjoy that just as much as combat.

[Chakra]

There is no limit to what crafts you can level, you can level them all. And really there's no issue with requiring mostly people to get players to repair... you can instantly warp back to town from anywhere basically. And it means you can have someone in your raid repair your stuff.

It also promotes profit for crafters which are an important aspect of the game, considering they want people to be able to focus on crafting and enjoy that just as much as combat.

Actually, the multiple craft proficiency is unknown and no, you can't warp back to town from anywhere in the final version. That was exclusive to the alpha version and maybe beta. You're going off assuming people like crafting and that it's fun. Not everyone feels that crafting is a blast. I doubt DoH classes will be in parties. Maybe outside around parties. Or maybe groups will take breaks, switch to their crafting classes, and take care of repairs with a little downtime.

Anyway...I wasn't asking how crafting classes will work or what various roles they play. In fact, I wasn't asking a question. I was talking about the durability system and how it could directly affect progression and economy and how, "Uh, look for a crafter...somewhere around...somewhere" or "Pay a NPC a fuck load of gil" to take care of your equipment repairs seems quite annoying.

[Ramsey]

Actually, the multiple craft proficiency is unknown and no, you can't warp back to town from anywhere in the final version. That was exclusive to the alpha version and maybe beta. You're going off assuming people like crafting and that it's fun. Not everyone feels that crafting is a blast. I doubt DoH classes will be in parties. Maybe outside around parties. Or maybe groups will take breaks, switch to their crafting classes, and take care of repairs with a little downtime.

Anyway...I wasn't asking how crafting classes will work or what various roles they play. In fact, I wasn't asking a question. I was talking about the durability system and how it could directly affect progression and economy and how, "Uh, look for a crafter...somewhere around...somewhere" or "Pay a NPC a fuck load of gil" to take care of your equipment repairs seems quite annoying.

Um, spewing incorrect information is bad for you. The teleport system is not just a feature for testing... It will be in the final game with possible limitations. In fact they said they weren't even sure they'd put limitations on it, but they did say they might make it so if you use it a bunch in short succession, you might have to wait before using it again.

Like a teleportation sickness, to prevent those who play all day from jumping around the world instantly, but to still allow it on a fairly regular basis for when its needed, or if you can only play a short time. This isn't a debate or anything, they've said this.

And I wasn't giving you an answer based on the fact that you were asking a question, so there's no need to specify that you were asking a question, because I wasn't giving an answer. I was correcting you, there's a difference.

Additionally, they have said this time there is no limits on crafting, if anything maybe if they add specializations in like they mentioned gunsmithing somewhere, maybe the super highest level specialized equipment will then only be synthable by someone in that specialization, and you can't have multiple specializations in one craft. Like Swordsmith vs Gunsmith, who knows-- But you can definitely level base crafts as far as you want.

And seeing as you can just port all over the place, finding someone to repair your stuff wouldn't be too difficult. Also I was talking about raids, and I was insinuating that someone in the raid would probably have a DoH class leveled and be able to switch over and do repairs, which would save the raid time if people didn't have to port back to town.

Assuming the system is done well, you'd never have to repair in the middle of a raid, unless you wiped like 50 times anyways. More reasons to promote crafting is a good thing, because again, they want to focus a lot of this game around DoL and DoH, as they have said before, they want those players who choose to focus on those two things, to be able to have just as much fun and just as much content as DoW and DoM.

[Kaylia]

I would hope they dont take out the teleportion thing out of the game. It's one of the best function at the moment.

[Caerith]

I have concerns about the durability system as well, but since there's no information yet I'll just go off hearsay and conjecture.

Durability requires that you get crafters to fix your gear or it becomes suboptimal to the point of being useless, but will not destroy your gear. One of the biggest complaints about crafting in XI (and it's back in XIV) is that if you fail a synth, you lose materials. Are we instead gonna have crafters blowing up our gear?

Are we gonna have to give our gear over to the crafters to make repairs on? "Here let me fix your k.club for you" is just asking for trouble. How many stories have we heard about the "let me skill up with your kclub please" victims? Sure, a GM can recover stuff now, but how much liability is this gonna be open to?

What will the requirements be to repair gear? Can a level 1 crafter repair all gear? Or will it scale to level? If the former, then the entire system is moot and just a timesink-- who cares if everyone can just carry a hammer on them? If the latter, it will make things immensely harder for players at higher levels as there is only a small number of crafters who ever reach the top and they will be disinclined to serve the entire server. If you worked to get smithing to 100+6, how are you going to react to getting 50 tells when you log on to "plz fix my hagun"?

It seems like the durability system is being added to help crafters out by giving them an extra source of income, but, as a crafter, is this a source of income I would want?

Now, that all said, bring on the facts.

[Kaylia]

There is no "fact" about the repair systems since it's not implemented. Just picture Diablo/WoW gears repairs, but replace the blacksmith NPC with a human. I'm sure they wont destroy your precious ridill and e.body, even SE isn't that cruel.


Most mmo nowaday have complex trade window where you can craft/enchant before accepting the trade. I'm sure we can expect something like this here.

[Gokulo]

I'm sure they wont destroy your precious ridill and e.body, even SE isn't that cruel.

They said the weapon won't be destroyed, but might break to the point where it's useless until repaired.

[Kaylia]

They said the weapon won't be destroyed, but might break to the point where it's useless until repaired.

I know, I was replying to this question

Are we instead gonna have crafters blowing up our gear?

[Ramsey]

Your items won't explode, I expect breaks in general to be less frequent and not as harsh, but as for repairs, you won't be handing your weapon over, and they won't be breaking it, it'll be some sort of system like Kaylia mentioned, you'll open a trade window, place it in a special spot, and they'll click repair or something along those lines.

[Chakra]

They already said that shit wont break and that you don't need to trade them your gear for them to repair it a few months back.

Don't worry about such things. SE's dumb, but they're not THAT dumb.

Um, spewing incorrect information is bad for you. The teleport system is not just a feature for testing... It will be in the final game with possible limitations. In fact they said they weren't even sure they'd put limitations on it, but they did say they might make it so if you use it a bunch in short succession, you might have to wait before using it again.

Like a teleportation sickness, to prevent those who play all day from jumping around the world instantly, but to still allow it on a fairly regular basis for when its needed, or if you can only play a short time. This isn't a debate or anything, they've said this.

Now you've got it! That's very different than, "teleport back to town from anywhere." Which is exactly what I said. A feature that was only in the alpha. You go on giving explanations for things that don't need explaining. Sure, you can keep answering questions that arn't being asked, but wouldn't it be awesome if you stuck to the topic?

[Loaar]

But, you literally can teleport back to town from anywhere, so I fail to see whats wrong with the statement.

The fact that you may only be able to do it a limited number of times on a day (or it could be unlimited, SE hasn't told us either way yet) doesn't change the fact that you can do it from anywhere.

[Jinko]

It doesn't make any sense that a crafter could run away with your weapon, especially considering many of them with bound to a character, I think they said a while back that there would be a window where you don't trade your weapon but the crafter can work on it.

I'm guessing something similar to Wow's non trade box for enchanting.

I don't remember reading that we can be profienct in all crafting classes either, I'd sure like to see where they said this.

[Kaylia]

I sure hope it will use a "repair all function". I'm going to uninstall the game if I have to trade every pieces one by one to the crafter in a WoW-like window.

[Jinko]

Personally I would rather just repair at the NPC, hopefully it won't be much more expensive.

Having to stand in a major city shouting for a repair class and getting no reply for hours on end, yea good times ... I think not.

[Kaylia]

Same here.

Repairing your own weapons to save money is nice (reward for leveling a craft), repairing your teamate's gears after a wipe when you're far from a city is fine, but having to look for a crafter once a day to get your shit fixed would be stupid, especially if you actually have to send tell and bargain a price or w/e.

[Enygma55]

Maybe the repair system will work like examining a player in FFXI, then the viewer has the option to repair any said equipment the person desires with a confirmation window to accept the repair.

This way you can see all equipment at once and quickly repair everything all in one screen.

And I highly doubt you won't be able to find a crafter to repair your stuff. Its like shouting for a teleport. By the time the game is sufficiently developed, Im sure everyone will have dabbled in a few crafts. I mean just look at people with multiple 75 jobs with multiple mules with 100+ crafts on them all.

I'd love to log on to receive 50 tells to fix their gear. Means more cash flow for me.

If your willing to pay an NPC 50k to repair your gear. I'll lv the craft and only charge 30k. It'll balance out in the end due to request/demand.

[Kaylia]

I would prefer paying npc over people who try to make money off other.

Make crafter able to repair gears like WHM cast protects (one click without interupt). Players being nice to each other is something I like to see in mmo.

[Loaar]

I would prefer paying npc over people who try to make money off other.

Make crafter able to repair gears like WHM cast protects (one click without interupt). Players being nice to each other is something I like to see in mmo.

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

That might be more your style.

I'm all for people being helpful, and I'll certainly repair friends or ls members gear for free. Assuming there is an NPC cost to repairing items, if you just start repairing anyones gear for free then you'll end up with every lazy random constantly asking for it.

If you give people something for nothing then they will always expect it. They should just level the craft themselves.