FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread III: Where's my beta invite?

[Kachi]

If there's no stats for armour, then there will be a lot less motivation for endgame. MMOs are already too much of a fashion contest.

Only if there isn't a similar system in place. As long as players have a way to progress that's like equipment the motivation will exist. Stat bonuses don't have to be on equipment.

Kinda disagree that MP is ancient idea... in wow there's MP also, just that they regen super fast. MP is also one of the stats that mages will aim for when maxing gear, like a tank will max defense and HP.

I do agree that no way to regen mp other than touching a stone is ancient.

It's like playing FF1 and you run of MP in a dungeon. You either use an ether or go back to town in an INN...

I think that was the intention. Personally I think it will work out fine once the classes are better balanced.

[Lucavi]

So long as you used at least 40% or more of your mp every 1m. Being able to technically never run out of mp is slightly OP and reminds me of healers in WoW right now.

And the devs realize that it's something that needs to be fixed.

FFXIV needs MP. I dunno if the current system is the answer, but it needs MP. Not having MP turns it into FFXIII and since theres no stagger mechanic here, there'd be nothing but the threat of hate to keep mages from death-spamming from far away.

I've always thought MP went too quickly and didn't recover fast enough in FFXI, but with some DECENT refresh gear or spells that can soak back up like 33% of your MP, it wouldn't be a problem.

I mean shit, look at aspir in the old FFs. It recovered as much as you needed or as much as the monster had. Having 1,500 MP and only being able to soak back 90 is not the way to go. You cripple a class that can literally do nothing else but cast spells. FFXIV's a little different, but I still wonder how healing in parties is going to go with 100% set MP bases.

[Kirb]

Conjurer also gets an ability to bind you to the ground in exchange for casting spells for half the MP cost, if I remember correctly.

[Meresgi]

And the devs realize that it's something that needs to be fixed.

FFXIV needs MP. I dunno if the current system is the answer, but it needs MP. Not having MP turns it into FFXIII and since theres no stagger mechanic here, there'd be nothing but the threat of hate to keep mages from death-spamming from far away.

I've always thought MP went too quickly and didn't recover fast enough in FFXI, but with some DECENT refresh gear or spells that can soak back up like 33% of your MP, it wouldn't be a problem.

Not in Alpha, but do you regen mp while in passive mode? Or is it just a static no regen? If it's just static then yeah it needs to be fixed, kind of strange you wouldnt be able to regen out of combat.

[mastamind]

Currently mp is used for element specific aoe spells and buffs. What i can see se doing is giving both thaumaturge and conjurer an ability that allows them to change the elemental affinity of their individual dart abilites with a decent stamina cost(75%?). Earth/fire/wind/water...etc for conjurer and astral/umbral for thaumaturge. Lets them use "spells" without being tethered to a crystal and has them think about when to use their mp spells.

[Lucavi]

It doesn't come back on its own. You either drink it back with an ether, atherite it back, or regain it with a skill.

Im not gonna lie, though. That AOE stoneskin is HAX. Shit lasts forever.

[Alym]

And the devs realize that it's something that needs to be fixed.

FFXIV needs MP. I dunno if the current system is the answer, but it needs MP. Not having MP turns it into FFXIII and since theres no stagger mechanic here, there'd be nothing but the threat of hate to keep mages from death-spamming from far away.

I've always thought MP went too quickly and didn't recover fast enough in FFXI, but with some DECENT refresh gear or spells that can soak back up like 33% of your MP, it wouldn't be a problem.

I mean shit, look at aspir in the old FFs. It recovered as much as you needed or as much as the monster had. Having 1,500 MP and only being able to soak back 90 is not the way to go. You cripple a class that can literally do nothing else but cast spells. FFXIV's a little different, but I still wonder how healing in parties is going to go with 100% set MP bases.

currently, range for conjurer isn't very big. i felt like i needed to be right next to the mob to cast. granted, this is beta and it may very well change.

i see what you're saying about mp, but the stamina bar could easily control spam by taking much more of the bar to cast spells than melee hits would take and by slowing the bar's regeneration for DoM classes. but i digress: i'm well aware SE would never do away with their precious mp.

at the very least, i hope nodes for mp recovery are everywhere and that there are tons of mp recovery abilities.

[Lucavi]

Just give mages more ways to recover MP and shit'll be allllriiight.

[Meresgi]

It doesn't come back on its own. You either drink it back with an ether, atherite it back, or regain it with a skill.

Im not gonna lie, though. That AOE stoneskin is HAX. Shit lasts forever.

Yeah ok, I gotta agree that's fucked up and needs a fix then. At least with a passive mode regen healers/casters would be able to go into passive mode at times during a long fight and regen a little, making them manage their MP but giving them the ability to get it back as well on top of skills.

[Alkar]

Tranquility is a starter, class-specific ability. It used a slot (and, I think, couldn't be moved about on the bar either, which is a bug cos it could in alpha) but I don't recall if it cost an action point or not. I THINK it didn't, because I started off with 6/7 points used, and both Fire and Blizzard used 3 each. Memory = rusty though.

I remember 6/7 points as well. The thing is that the MP recovered/recast ratio is a bit off. Honestly I didn't have much time to play with it to see if it's % based but if it's not it needs adjustments, which is exactly what the beta is for.
I know it's a level 1 skill but just as a comparison neither Convert, Refresh or Sublimation take 30 minutes to use/get the full effect from and they recover more than this ability does. Granted that they all have some kind of limitations but 30 minutes seems a bit harsh.
Also I think you should be able to cast Cure if you're attacked or engaged with an enemy (don't really sure which is "locking" Cure right now), was it like that in Alpha? Maybe it was just me but I couldn't cast Cure at all while I was fighting something.

[Kachi]

If nothing else, mages will be able to carry lots of ethers.

[Lucavi]

^ But they can't drink on the run! XD

[Meresgi]

^ But they can't drink on the run! XD

Drinking and Running is against the law in Eorzea!

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

Elezen M Creation
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XK4BOLC7

[Pyree]

Read the beta forums, its an issue with certain video cards... 470s and 480s I think.

Ah, that must be it, I'm using a 470 right now. Hope it gets fixed soon

[Ramsey]

The fact is MP is already in the game and won't be removed. I think two things need to happen. A. melee classes need to have to make use of MP more, and B. there needs to be a way to restore MP, implementing XII's charge and requiring it to use some stamina would be fine I think, as long as that's combined with good overall level design, so that as you progress forward on your mission you run into MP restore points for the entire party.

Mages should feel different from melee, there damage should be more bursty, a few hard hitting spells, a charge or two and then a few more hard hitting spells. But their damage should be fairly equivalent to that of a melee on a normal enemy. On enemies that are weak to magic, or on an enemy where the mage properly exploits an elemental weakness, their damage should be better than a melee's.

[Alym]

The fact is MP is already in the game and won't be removed. I think two things need to happen. A. melee classes need to have to make use of MP more, and B. there needs to be a way to restore MP, implementing XII's charge and requiring it to use some stamina would be fine I think, as long as that's combined with good overall level design, so that as you progress forward on your mission you run into MP restore points for the entire party.

Mages should feel different from melee, there damage should be more bursty, a few hard hitting spells, a charge or two and then a few more hard hitting spells. But their damage should be fairly equivalent to that of a melee on a normal enemy. On enemies that are weak to magic, or on an enemy where the mage properly exploits an elemental weakness, their damage should be better than a melee's.

This ^

I was mostly just typing out what i wish would happen. The main thing i am concerned with is class balance. currently, DoW classes are much more efficient than DoM. if everyone was forced to use mp, there would be much more balance. i think the more mp you have to use, the more opportunities you should have to do large bursty damage.

[Jinfire]

You both have interesting concepts which sound good.
But it just sounds like Thum needs more dps and Conj needs better mana control. They said their would be a job to manage a parties mp which is cool but we have yet to see it.

Its cool if later on the MP / mage issues get irons out, but also the class needs to function at the low levels too.

[Cichy]

I guess I'm alone in this but all this bitching and whining and I havent seen anyone past lvl 10 yet on beta. I do agree that mp should regenerate in passive mode but there is alot of complaints about how you dont have mp refresh and such. Remember FFXI? Refresh was lvl 41, ballads were higher than 10 also, so were the corsair rolls. In Aion my sorcerer dint have mp recovery ability for a while also. I dont think besides the passive mode mp regen there is anything that cant be fixed with higher lvl abilites. Personally I dont want my lvl 5 char to have infinate mp and cast deathga like some people here.

Edit*
In reply to what Ramsey posted. Melee classes do use mp. When I was using Red Lotus Blade it took 10 MP each time out of a pool of maybe 180. So after 18 ws's you gotta go back to crystal.

[Ramsey]

I guess I'm alone in this but all this bitching and whining and I havent seen anyone past lvl 10 yet on beta. I do agree that mp should regenerate in passive mode but there is alot of complaints about how you dont have mp refresh and such. Remember FFXI? Refresh was lvl 41, ballads were higher than 10 also, so were the corsair rolls. In Aion my sorcerer dint have mp recovery ability for a while also. I dont think besides the passive mode mp regen there is anything that cant be fixed with higher lvl abilites. Personally I dont want my lvl 5 char to have infinate mp and cast deathga like some people here.

No one wants that, but mages are always in high demand because people tend to play melee classes. When you consider right now it's a 5:2 ratio, and then you add in the fact that mage classes are mostly inferior at low levels, people who do actually play a mage class will get discouraged seeing how much better/faster melee classes are at killing things and switch over.

It's a bad thing for class distribution in a game for this to happen. The goal shouldn't be for people to only level Conjurer so their Gladiator has some healing spells for after battles. It's true this issue could be solved at higher levels, but FFXI's mana system was fundamentally broken. Black Mages are only ever desired in parties if you're fighting flans or some other tremendously melee resistant creature, or in HNM style encounters. In normal low person content BLM is shunned, and this should not be the fate of mage classes in FFXIV. That is what people are concerned about.