i'm very concerned that FFXIV will be too easy

[ringthree]

4- Guaranteed drops vs. Luck of the draw - It's frustrating to some people that after months or years of trying to get that special drop (o mio dio), they still haven't gotten it. Other games are guaranteed to put out at least one item per boss, sometimes with a rarer loot pool you get lucky from. Me, I like the token system, where after a couple months of not seeing your drop, you can just go buy it or something comparable as a consolation prize, but other people hate this idea.

Think about which parts of the models you'd put together. What's your ideal game like?

Every MMO heavily limits drops. It's just the way that they limit them that is the difference.

FFXI players love to complain about how WoW has higher drop rates, but remember for each difficultly level (and this is only going to get worse in the next WoW expansion), you can only kill each boss once a week. If you didn't get your drop that week, then you had to wait another week before the RNG gods fucked you over again.

I never really considered this factor because I didn't really do end-game in WoW, but in the end, it is essentially the same. In FFXI you do an event more often but have a lower drop rate. In WoW you do an event less often but have a higher drop rate. I am not convinced that one is better than the other.

Yes, BRP, I just made a comparison to WoW. Shockingly, it can be done civilly.

[dejet]

No, we consider stupid time sinks like AF quest. Waiting until JP midnight for my COR af is retarded. Waiting til JP midnight for my SAM AF is retarded.

Having to run around to do CS's is bad. As long as it doesn't take 2 hours to get to said ??? for the cut scene that last 5 minutes.

I do sorta side with you on the midnight waits sucking, however it was all put in place not only for time sinks but as well to portray a story. Each AF quest I have done has been better itself then any mission I did in aion.

A lot of work was put into the story-lines of FFXI and the day waits where in place only to add to it. Some do seem unneeded you are right. And as the game aged we all knew about it and it just seemed in the way.

Its because FFXI is showing its age, if done right FF14 can use midnight waits and weather/time resets just fine. It will seem fun and great, and add just as in FF11. In 8 years if your still doing it, it will seem old I bet lol.

FF11 aged thats all there is to it, the story is fine if its fresh and the waits you can deal with. But because its harder to find people and you have quested 5+ AF sets(some twice or even three times) it sucks lol.

In closing; I see nothing wrong with midnight waits if they are done well.

[ringthree]

I look at the time =/= difficulty thing like this. Remember back when people did sky and you had to ride a chocobo all the way there and it took around 20-25 minutes? Then, once you got there you had to have everybody there and ready to farm etc. So, it could potentially be 1-2 hours before you got to a god/boss fight purely based on travel times and such. The little things that WoW cut out like the travel times and being summoned make the game less time restraining.

Scenario: "Oh crap, our tank logged in 15 minutes late"
FFXI - Bah, alright, well it'll be another 20 minutes or so for him to get here etc.
WoW - It's ok, we can summon him to the group via warlock or summoning stone.

I hope with FF14 they realize that little time sinks like that are unnecessary (ie sky teleport).

A similar scenario with a twist: "Oh crap, our tank is out of town for a week"

FFXI - Bah, alright, well, I will switch to PLD, and maybe one or two other people switch and we can get going.
WoW - It's ok, we can just use our undergeared off tank, and lose to the same encounter over and over.

[BRP]

None of your posts have anything to do with me.

[Agito]

FFXIV is better than WoW and WoW is better than FFXI.

[ringthree]

I mostly get where you're coming from here and agree.

And I mostly think the OP is a masochistic idiot for wanting more grind and more time sinks.

But there's one thing that the longer, more drawn-out boss fights of FFXI have going for them: a sense of epicness.

A group will get faster and smoother at killing, and fights will get shorter and more routine in FFXI. There are a lot of things that WoW does well, such as forcing new strategies rather than figuring out how to apply old ones, but the trade-off for that is that the Big Bad Internet Wolf doesn't seem so big or bad once you realize you can down him in 5 minutes.

There are certainly things in FFXI that applies to also, such as Dynamis Lord or Baha v2, but they're mainly situations where CS Stun + zerging works.

I'd rather the time commitment for FFXIV not be the hard part. Make coordination, timing, and strategy more important than patience. But every now and then you need a dragon that just refuses to go down fast, and tests endurance as well (within reason... fuck you un-nerfed PW).

Just ignore Eaglestrike, the dude is a WoW troll.

He has built a little bird house in Ghostcrawler's rectum and only peaks his head out to post on BG.

[Lucavi]

I mostly get where you're coming from here and agree.

And I mostly think the OP is a masochistic idiot for wanting more grind and more time sinks.

But there's one thing that the longer, more drawn-out boss fights of FFXI have going for them: a sense of epicness.

A group will get faster and smoother at killing, and fights will get shorter and more routine in FFXI. There are a lot of things that WoW does well, such as forcing new strategies rather than figuring out how to apply old ones, but the trade-off for that is that the Big Bad Internet Wolf doesn't seem so big or bad once you realize you can down him in 5 minutes.

There are certainly things in FFXI that applies to also, such as Dynamis Lord or Baha v2, but they're mainly situations where CS Stun + zerging works.

I'd rather the time commitment for FFXIV not be the hard part. Make coordination, timing, and strategy more important than patience. But every now and then you need a dragon that just refuses to go down fast, and tests endurance as well (within reason... fuck you un-nerfed PW).

There is NO sense of epicness watching a bunch of smns spam spinning dive and pred. claws at shit. There never was, and there never will be. Kirin was never epic when people decided to stop trying new things and do it "the standard way"; running around kiting while smns BPed, and then KC and fistburnt to the ground. Fafhogg was never epic by the same logic. You can replace just about every boss that can be killed the same way.

When you can burn a boss down in a contrived way, the fight has lost any sense of "epic"ness. The only fight I can say I truly felt was epic was Divine Might about 9 months after RoZ came out when NOT MANABURNED, but therein lies the problem: too many exploits in a game that was designed to be slow-paced and methodical.

I'm not saying these fights weren't fun, but there is a vast difference between fun and "epic". I had tons of fun fighting proto-ultima with my LS, and getting our shit rocked the first few times. I loved fighting proto-omega and watching him spam l-l-l-l-laser beams left and right, and fire cluster rockets at people. Those fights were not, however, epic. Kirin was not epic. Fafhogg/KV/Tiamat/ect. were not epic. Perhaps a case could be made for Apoc Nigh., since that fight was so hyped up and actually delivered, and perhaps the first initial clears of the Dynamis Lord, long before KC burns and blood monk burns were the norm. A few rdms, a few mnks, lots of backloaded rngs for spike DPS, stuns, crazy tanks and amazing healers all thrown together trying to survive, not just burn it down - those were the closest things to being "epic".

People throw around this "epic" word far too much. Its nostalgia, nothing more. Fun is NOT epic. Epic is challenging, brutal, breathtaking, shaking when its over, hearing people screaming over vent when it finally falls, sweating throughout the fight, yelling out when mistakes are made and crying out when saves are thrown out by others.

The fights that others have described above are nothing close to epic = they were a means to getting the phat lewt that HNMLSes wanted to monopolize and sell.

[Kalisa]

A similar scenario with a twist: "Oh crap, our tank is out of town for a week"

FFXI - Bah, alright, well, I will switch to PLD, and maybe one or two other people switch and we can get going.
WoW - It's ok, we can just use our undergeared off tank, and lose to the same encounter over and over.

Haha, why is the wow tank undergeared and the FFXI one not? If you get someone who's out of practice and behind on gear to fill a role, you can lose in either game. Bit harder in FFXI because you can't get one-shotted quite so easily, but still. That's not relevant. Neither is this entire tangent, but whatever.

[quannum]

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/imag...es/padlock.gif

[Lucavi]

^ If you want to take it a step farther, you also have the examples where because you leveled one "desired" job and 7 "undesireds", you're forced on that desired job if you ever want to get anything done.

Oh yes, the memories of barding for everything, all the time, no matter what, no questions asked, and no excuses accepted. Fun fun for everyone.

[BRP]

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/imag...es/padlock.gif

An admin posted how stupid this thread was... then walked off.

[Haruk]

I agree with the OP in many aspects, but i also agree with everyone else about the time sink =/= difficulty stuff..

when i get something done in ff11, i felt way more awesome than i did getting some epicz in wow. i haven't played 11 in several years, but the feeling after finally beating kirin when he was hard, finally being the first on the server to beat vrtra(again when he was hard) was something i liked about 11. granted now i don't have nearly as much time as i did when i played 11 so if that went into 14 like that, i'd probably just get pissed off, but it was still what kept me playing 11 for the time I did, although most of the crap did get old fast after doing it a 3rd time

but still, i can totally see where the OP is getting at, spending hours getting through some zone with sneak/invis avoiding the true sight mobs was annoying as fuck, but i can still look back on it and see that it was pretty fun. a lot of the end game at a point required coordination with a bunch of people over a long period of time, and then you'll probably get fucked in the asshole by the shitty droprates, but when you do get something, you'll feel like you ahve the biggest dick on the whole server. i remember finally beating divine might the standard way, and it was pretty awesome. still don't wanna see any of those long HNM camps, 5 hour sky runs, or long ass dynamis runs to come back though

[FunnyGinMan]

Not too concerned myself really. I'm just looking forward to a new online FF game.

[D44kpunk]

FFXIV is better than WoW and WoW is better than FFXI.

according to the people in this thread people have only seen 1% of the game and none of it has been endgame, so that makes you able to say that 14 is better than WoW. I sure hope you're trolling or as dumb as brp

[nitsuj]

There is NO sense of epicness watching a bunch of smns spam spinning dive and pred. claws at shit. There never was, and there never will be. Kirin was never epic when people decided to stop trying new things and do it "the standard way"; running around kiting while smns BPed, and then KC and fistburnt to the ground. Fafhogg was never epic by the same logic. You can replace just about every boss that can be killed the same way.

When you can burn a boss down in a contrived way, the fight has lost any sense of "epic"ness. The only fight I can say I truly felt was epic was Divine Might about 9 months after RoZ came out when NOT MANABURNED, but therein lies the problem: too many exploits in a game that was designed to be slow-paced and methodical.

I'm not saying these fights weren't fun, but there is a vast difference between fun and "epic". I had tons of fun fighting proto-ultima with my LS, and getting our shit rocked the first few times. I loved fighting proto-omega and watching him spam l-l-l-l-laser beams left and right, and fire cluster rockets at people. Those fights were not, however, epic. Kirin was not epic. Fafhogg/KV/Tiamat/ect. were not epic. Perhaps a case could be made for Apoc Nigh., since that fight was so hyped up and actually delivered, and perhaps the first initial clears of the Dynamis Lord, long before KC burns and blood monk burns were the norm. A few rdms, a few mnks, lots of backloaded rngs for spike DPS, stuns, crazy tanks and amazing healers all thrown together trying to survive, not just burn it down - those were the closest things to being "epic".

People throw around this "epic" word far too much. Its nostalgia, nothing more. Fun is NOT epic. Epic is challenging, brutal, breathtaking, shaking when its over, hearing people screaming over vent when it finally falls, sweating throughout the fight, yelling out when mistakes are made and crying out when saves are thrown out by others.

The fights that others have described above are nothing close to epic = they were a means to getting the phat lewt that HNMLSes wanted to monopolize and sell.

Epic is a total wipe, WHM reraising and having JUST enough time to cast Holy on the 1% mob for the kill before you wipe again.

Where you stand up and scream "FUCK YEAH" at the TV and wake up your parents (hey, this was years ago).

Epic is having no idea what you're doing and no legit strategy beyond the one you came up with 5 minutes before entering and somehow holding it together long enough to survive the fight and take down the boss with enough time to back to Jeuno and brag to your friends.

That's what people miss about FFXI. Even with our relic weapons and full salvage gear, Kraken Clubs and Dark Knights... we miss *that* old sense of confusion that made our fights epic.

We need something new.

[Thiefami]

in WoW everything is better

[LD]

I consider the final TOA fight to be epic, but it wasn't just because it was hard.

The music was fucking AWESOME. "Those...who fail to worship...shall be judged."

[Corresapolonia]

The director of this game is fucking nobuaki komoto.

The guy directed CoP.

There's no way he'll just let us breeze through everything. I don't believe it. He's a sadist.

The moment you lose your focus he'll throw 20 mammets and 5 omegas at you.

this. with whipped cream and a nice cherry on top.

[Kuya]

This thread is already far into ff vs wow shit and it isn't locked yet.

[FunnyGinMan]

in WoW everything is better

I very much beg to differ. You're comparing apples and oranges here. Either game caters to 2 almost completely different crowds. I played FFXI for 5 years and eventually quit simply because I burned myself out, which I then switched to WoW for the last year and 1/2 and eventaully quit that also because I killed the Lich King and was done with the game. Personally I still prefer XI over WoW mostly because of the difficulty it involved.