Namas Arrow and Samurai

[Konda]

I realise this should maybe be in the what's better thread, but Advanced hasnt had a new discussiony(is that a word?) thread in a while, and I'm interested to see where this goes and don't really want it dispersed between 2 or 3 other discussions occouring at the same time...


It's generally thought that Yoichi SAM is the best DD for lower end mobs due to the insane TP gain and good quality weaponskills. However, there doesnt seem to be many/any Yoichis in fully capable hands to push this build to it's limits; or none that actively post/test/etc.

When looking at various "if I had everything" scinarios, I was looking at Yoichi and realised that Names has increased TP return over traditional SAM WS... and this perhaps opens up some different equipment choices...


Assuming Names is used with Rajas, Hachi legs/feet, and with 5 Stp merits, you'd get 21.8TP return from Names.

This means you need 15.64 TP/hit for TP swings for Names + 5hits to 100TP

OR

19.55 TP/hit for Names + 4 hits.

5hit builds are generally frowned upon with 450 DLY weapons, but that's because you need to drop lots of haste, other DD stats and WS stats to maintain the 20/hit required.

However, with Yoichi, /drg is promient and as such Wyvern earring is active. What's more, most of the damage from this combo is from Names, the TP gain is paramount to overall Damage.


Assuming 30/50/20 on Soboro...

With the Names+4 build, there's a 61% chance you can Names again after 2 attack rounds.

However, with Names+5 build, there's only a 24% chance of Names after 2 attack rounds.



The Maxed gearsets would look something like this:

Names+4:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=162385
407 Acc with Hedgehog Pie and Hasso.

Names+5:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=162390
410.8 Acc with Hasso only.


The cost of moving to Names+4 is dropping from 26% equipment haste to 23% equipment haste, and losing the use of Sword Strap.

However, I'm by no means familiar enough with FFXI formulas to even begin to work out which is better...

I'm kind of thinking Names+4 is better if Acc is capped, but the haste drop and no sword strap might fall behind in high haste situations. You'd also need to use Hedgehog Pie instead of Red Curry on Names+4 to achive comparable Acc.

I'm very curios as to which approach would be better, and if thorny or whoever could look into it like they did into the hagun/soboro/OAT GKT comparison a while ago, I'm sure it'd be appreciated by the handfull of yoichi owners out there, and prove interesting to everyone else...


also, inb4 "no1 cares", "do it yourself" and "lol, its Konda"

[Kouu]

Namas

[Konda]

Namas

my dyslexia strikes again

[euph]

kouu adding great info, as always

[Kouu]

Euph being a faggot, as always.

[Therin]

Looks like you've already worked out the conclusion.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Berserk

[Chen]

throwing it out there that this 407standard acc level is going to be mostly irrelevant in 1 week.

also are your %'s for xhit taking into account the 95% acc cap? will push those %'s down abit again

[Demosthenes11]

Berserk

ya, ive talked to a few different people with yoichi and they say /war or bust

[Marcicus]

with stuff like chaos roll and hedgehog pie, wouldn't /drg pull ahead of /war?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Without some serious attack, you're gonna' be putting out the same numbers with Namas Arrow as you would with Gekko using Soboro

[Tsuko_Asura]

with stuff like chaos roll and hedgehog pie, wouldn't /drg pull ahead of /war?

Not until your pDIF is capped.. Which isn't going to happen with Namas

[Onorgul]

What situation are you talking about, exactly, Tsuko?

I actually played with one of those rare few Samurai who legitimately can be said to have used Yoichinoyumi to the fullest. In Salvage, he was /Warrior as a matter of course, so he had Berserk available as needed and, when the Bard could manage it (that is, wasn't being retarded), Minuets as appropriate, notably during a Meikyo spamfest on a boss. On Greater Colibri, he far preferred /Dragoon, too, as Attack becomes somewhat more irrelevant on those silly ass things and getting massive TP out of Jump and High Jump along with the changes to his gear set allowed for a constant barrage of Namas Arrows.

The only place I can think where this whole argument about Attack being terribly relevant actually holding water would be the sort of mobs that you really don't want someone with a Soboro smacking away at the thing.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Piercing bonus takes place after absolutely everything else, so attack is just as relevant on birds as it is everywhere else.

And honestly, people can moan about TP-feeding until they're blue in the face, but as far as I'm concerned, higher-end fights are where this combination shines.

[Gabai]

wouldn't brutal be innapropriate for soboro?

[Konda]

wouldn't brutal be innapropriate for soboro?

It reduces the number of singles and triples slightly, and increases the amount of double swings... which, for the Namas+4 set in this comparison particularly, is better than anything else you can use on the ear.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Its pretty much a side-grade, but if your Acc is capped, its fine

[Onorgul]

And honestly, people can moan about TP-feeding until they're blue in the face, but as far as I'm concerned, higher-end fights are where this combination shines.

Aren't those the places you should have Bard buffs and whatnot, anyhow? I don't actually know what kind of Accuracy is needed for something like Yilbegan or Dark Ixion (I know the latter is rather evasive, though), but if one can achieve some kind of build that allows meat and appropriate buffs/debuffs, how much of Berserk do you functionally use?

I mean, it's nice that you want to just dismiss TP as irrelevant, but just saying "Berserk" is not exactly stating your argument in a very compelling way.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Eh, I expect people to connect the dots. Nobody who can take advantage of attack chooses Wyvern Earring over Berserk, not sure why this would be any different.

[Onorgul]

So, and I want to be clear on this even though it is not news to me, your basic tactic is to say something, hope that it is more or less correct, and pray that your terse and mulish behavior inspires agreement lest you be forced to actually look at your assumptions and justify them or, worse yet, find a flaw in your reasoning and correct yourself?

Whatever, I'll just be flamed as usual, but silly me imagining that someone would fucking explain something around here when asked a direct question.