Namas Arrow and Samurai

[Konda]

learn how enmity works please, with the right enmity- setup and a tank who knows how to play in dyna(for example) you won't pull hate with ONE big slug

you just lost the tiny credibility you had.

you clearly dont know what the hell you're talking about, go away with your retarded ramblings

Man, first of all seriously get a brain and read my posts ; ; thats really annoying.

I have read them and they're getting progressively more and more retarded.

[Aero]

1) much more TP fed to mob
2) no defensive ability/trait/anything
3) Wednesday
4) lower acc for both TP and Slug
5) less haste
6) SAM gains next to 0 hate.
7) you're retarded
8) Meat DOES give ranged attack, and you're trying to discuss pinnacle RNG builds without knowing this?

1. Already adressed/
2. Granted, but the mob should die quickly enough for you not to be in too big of danger unless its something like EES in dynamis.
3. Its thursday D:<
4. Assuming perfect gear RNG can cap on pretty much anything its viable to use KC on. As for less acc during slug shot; RNG gets A- in marksmanship + sushi = capped ACC pretty much anywhere.
5. Less haste; better WS.
6. Dont be so light to say that; Soboros DoT alone is very formidable, even more so in high haste situations. Granted you will likely not be tanking unless someone dies but to think they stay low on the hate list is laughable.
7. Personal attacks somewhat make you look less intelligent. Side note: I think JnnnnnL have different looks on how to gear RNG properly. >_>
8. Yes meat does give Rattack and a SAM should be using it.

[Konda]

I pulled the SAM numbers from Byrthnoth's 6 hit set up. I think he had included merits + 11STP in gear. I used a non-/SAM sub + 11STP gear for RNG(Cobra unit harness + rajas). If you were to call me on anything it would be TP overflow skewing the results more than anything.

I stated earlier these numbers would be closer with buffs. But assuming haste buffs; chances are youre also getting some type of +attack/+acc buffs as well which benefit RNG more than SAM.

Why would SAM need Acc buffs with A+ 2handed weapon and good equipment?

You said in the previous page that you had 80% melee acc on RNG with sushi.

SAM is at 95% acc, with 10% more haste without really trying that hard. I'm curious as to how you can think it can compare?

Post your "Ideal" TP sets for Kclub RNG, and I bet the Acc probably isnt capped for G.col

What did I say in my previous posts ? Replace some acc gears by stp+ ones and you'll find out by yourself how to get a 5 hit, if you don't know what gears i'm talking about then don't even try.

Exept that's exactly what I did to get 5hit? It's not possible without the +9 StoreTP on Hachi Kote.
dropping this 9, I'd love to see where you're picking the extra needed StoreTP from. Because at the minute, it seems like you're pulling it out of your ass.

[JnnnnnL]

Wow, you guys won, I didn't want to believe everyone in my LS but it's true BG is full of fags with no brain, if you want to think sam is better then do so I absolutely don't give a fuck or do the maths yourself or have fun wasting gils on yoichi to get outparsed idc.

Honestly with 16stp from cor, 10hits/3.82 to get to 100 tp, slug full time if you can or coro 33% of the time (33%=half time ? wow) you'll still win vs yoichi w/o pulling hate. Gogo read that kanican.livejournal.com and if you still wanna lie to yourself by thinking yoichi sam is better than anni kc rng then idc.

But seriously don't forget that bow's penality is a lot more than gun's and slug's dmg is a lot higher than namas (and lol+20 racc namas aftermath).

Well to conclude, You Fail.

"I'd love to see where you're picking the extra needed StoreTP from. Because at the minute, it seems like you're pulling it out of your ass. "

You Fail even more.

[Tits]

I just wanted to butt in and ask Jnnnnl what utterly ridiculous penalty he is referencing that afflicts one piercing ranged weapon in a manner that is different from another piercing ranged weapon?

EDIT ADD:
It will be fun to watch him go from Melee Summoner to Banned Artard in a manner of minutes, though.

[JnnnnnL]

Oh yea it's well known, the pummeling message occurs at the same distance for all rng weapons. And No, in case you don't, there are not only 3 penalities (nothing, squarely, pummel).

[Aero]

Why would SAM need Acc buffs with A+ 2handed weapon and good equipment?

You said in the previous page that you had 80% melee acc on RNG with sushi.

SAM is at 95% acc, with 10% more haste without really trying that hard. I'm curious as to how you can think it can compare?

Post your "Ideal" TP sets for Kclub RNG, and I bet the Acc probably isnt capped for G.col

Ill concede the +acc point; but something like chaos roll/minuet/boxstep/dia will benefit RNG more.

I said 80% with my less than perfect gear.

10% more haste is the only advantage you have over RNG. Like I said Slugshot destroys Namas arrow in damage. Not accounting for TP overflow RNG gets TP 60% faster than SAM before haste; in order for your 10% haste bonus to overcome that you'll need to have roughly 70% haste for RNG 80% haste for SAM just to gain TP at equal speeds. Now this is possible with march/march/haste/samba/gear But then we start adding in Box step/dia where RNG gets more than SAM, which starts skewing towards RNG again. Not to mention like I said a D:141 5fTP is much better than D:119 2.75(3?) fTP.

As for Ideal RNG

KC//Culvy+1/Cannon shell
Turban/A.Torque/Hollow/ACP Hollow
C.U. Harness/Dusk+1/Raja's/Toreador
ACP Beak mantle ACC+7 DEX+2(Yea right)/Sash(Speed belt)/Byakko/Setanta's Ledelsens

[Konda]

Wow, you guys won, I didn't want to believe everyone in my LS but it's true BG is full of fags with no brain, if you want to think sam is better then do so I absolutely don't give a fuck or do the maths yourself or have fun wasting gils on yoichi to get outparsed idc.

Honestly with 16stp from cor, 10hits/3.82 to get to 100 tp, slug full time if you can or coro 33% of the time (33%=half time ? wow) you'll still win vs yoichi w/o pulling hate. Gogo read that kanican.livejournal.com and if you still wanna lie to yourself by thinking yoichi sam is better than anni kc rng then idc.

But seriously don't forget that bow's penality is a lot more than gun's and slug's dmg is a lot higher than namas (and lol+20 racc namas aftermath).

Well to conclude, You Fail.

"I'd love to see where you're picking the extra needed StoreTP from. Because at the minute, it seems like you're pulling it out of your ass. "

You Fail even more.

What the fuck?

I don't need to read Kaeko's LJ to know that spamming Slugs a few times per minute for 60% enmity is going to give a fuck ton more hate than the same number of Namas, which give about the same hate as dispel.

lets look at your contribution to this discussion...

I DID TEH MAFZ AND IM RIGHT. AND TANK R GUD IN DYNAMIS AND SAVE ME FROM TEH MOBZ WHEN I SPAMZ TEH SLUGZ LOL

0 maths
0 examples
0 proof
0 clue

You are the one fails.
You've done nothing but post incorrect ideas and bullshit conclusions pulled from imaginary maths.
From the way you think the sun shines out of Kclub's ass you clearly dont have one and have not seen one in action. They're good, but they're not as good as you're claiming them to be.
You forget you're relying on a 1handed weapon with E- skill rating.
With PERFECT gear/merits and sushi, RNG barely scrapes 407 Acc.

Take your oligophrenic ass elsewhere.

[Tits]

Oh yea it's well known, the pummeling message occurs at the same distance for all rng weapons. And No, in case you don't, there are not only 3 penalities (nothing, squarely, pummel).

So you're implying that bows suffer a bigger numerical penalty than guns in this regard? Thank you for clearing that up.

[Aero]

With PERFECT gear/merits and sushi, RNG barely scrapes 407 Acc.

My perfect RNG with Bream+1 has 416; which is more than enough to cap on pretty much anything you'd use KC on. Crab sushi brings it down to 399, which isnt as nice but far from bad.

Edit: Thats with Elvaan DEX+No DEX merit + 8 club merits.

[Konda]

As for Ideal RNG

KC//Culvy+1/Cannon shell
Turban/A.Torque/Hollow/ACP Hollow
C.U. Harness/Dusk+1/Raja's/Toreador
ACP Beak mantle ACC+7 DEX+2(Yea right)/Sash(Speed belt)/Byakko/Setanta's Ledelsens

So thats 399.97 Acc with crab sushi according to ffxicalc. Them Augments are beyond a long shot so your acc wouldn't even be that high.

If we're using Colibri as an example, you're going to get food stolen and TP tickled... not to mention the damage you'd take. Your peformance is going to be less again.

[JnnnnnL]

What the fuck?

I don't need to read Kaeko's LJ to know that spamming Slugs a few times per minute for 60% enmity is going to give a fuck ton more hate than the same number of Namas, which give about the same hate as dispel.

lets look at your contribution to this discussion...



0 maths
0 examples
0 proof
0 clue

You are the one fails.
You've done nothing but post incorrect ideas and bullshit conclusions pulled from imaginary maths.
From the way you think the sun shines out of Kclub's ass you clearly dont have one and have not seen one in action. They're good, but they're not as good as you're claiming them to be.
You forget you're relying on a 1handed weapon with E- skill rating.
With PERFECT gear/merits and sushi, RNG barely scrapes 407 Acc.

Take your oligophrenic ass elsewhere.

with 67stp in your WS set, you'd need 63stp in your tp set to have a 5hit, and 63-35-4-2-1-1-6-5-1-1-7=0, yes you'll sacrifice some acc but since you're sam, with a brd rotation for example your acc will still very good and +haste will help a lot. And once again I didn't say it was the best thing to do. New tier of STP for sam will solve that problem anyway, just wanted to point out you're trying to argue and don't even know all the gears available.

Plus the point is not to generate less hate than namas but less hate than the tank.

[Aero]

I agree the augments are going to be pretty much unattainable; but you did say ideal. 399 ACC on colibri is 90% ACC isnt it. If we go with Cuchulains/Diabolos earring you're only losing 2-3 ACC.

As for Feather tickle/food stolen. You're just as likely to be tanking as a RNG would from DoT alone. We dont tank every colibri every time due to our DoT being terrible, other people will be tanking while were gaining TP. Soboros DoT is really high too, I wouldnt be surprised if you tank a majority of them before someone WSs.

As for taking damage effecting our output; we dont have any defensive abilities/spells to cast. Our way of mitigating damage is to kill whats hitting us asap(which amazingly works unless you eat an EES or similar ability. Pecking flurry isnt THAT bad), it does not slow us down.

[Konda]

Soboros DoT is really high too, I wouldnt be surprised if you tank a majority of them before someone WSs.

Are you suggesting that a Soboro's DoT is going to hold hate over a decent SAM or WAR or MNK or whatever else you're meriting with under the same buffs?

63-35-4-2-1-1-6-5-1-1-7=0

Nice proof

Edit:
and WSing in +32 StoreTP? get real.
Why would you gimp the thing making up 80% of your damage?

[Aero]

Are you suggesting that a Soboro's DoT is going to hold hate over a decent SAM or WAR or MNK or whatever else you're meriting with under the same buffs?

Yea; I wouldnt be surprised if your DoT was not similar to another SAM or WAR. MNK probably not.

[Byrthnoth]

I think I'm done with this after this post, as it isn't relevant to the original post and frankly the k-club math is unworkable at the moment. Also, if your Soboro holds hate over a Polearm SAM at birds or a Warrior, your other DDs have some issues. Soboro pulling hate a few times due to a good Triple Attack at the start of a mob, maybe. Soboro holding hate past the first attack round? Probably not. Realistically, if you have two other DDs they'll probably either Provoke and pull hate or WS and pull hate.

I would guess that TP overflow is a major factor in K-club builds, which is why they always look so much better on paper than in practice. Once you get up near 30 TP/round (so you're seeing maybe 2-5 rounds per WS on average), the probability distribution starts to matter.

[Aero]

Not sure if it was clear what I ment so Ill clarify. I mean to say Soboros DoT is greater than or equal to Tomoe/Hagun/Perdu Gaxe/etc. Once someone weaponskills I should hope youre not tanking. I suppose provoke would be common especially if you have a WAR abusing retaliation. But to completely dismiss Soboros DoT is faulty.

TP overflow is pretty much impossible to calculate, I agree. And it likely will skew things a lot.

[CDF]

The consequences of TP overflow (to the extent that not accounting for it overestimates WS frequency) are not impossible or even difficult to calculate. To do so, however, requires knowledge of the multi-hit distribution of Kraken Club, but claims of what it actually is do not have any real support, though, and empirical determination is tedious without a automated method of tabulation (parser).

[Aero]

05% Chance of 1 hit
15% Chance of 2 Hits
25% Chance of 3 hits
25% Chance of 4 Hits
15% Chance of 5 Hits
10% Chance of 6 Hits
03% Chance of 7 Hits
02% Chance of 8 Hits

These are the 'accepted' numbers, if you would like to take on the tedious task of figuring out all the combinations available to reach 100+ TP feel free to. I think these numbers were taken from Studio Gobli.

[CDF]

Because Studio Gobli says it, it must be true? Then Joyeuse must have a 50% proc rate.

I don't even care what it is, merely pointing out the obstacle to "correct" calculation is the validity of multi-hit distribution claims.