Tales of Studio in debt.

[Kaylia]

I've already said who:




lol. I have been the only one providing numbers here. EXACT sales numbers. I can't readily find exact development costs, but there has been nothing to say that localization has harmed Namco Bandai or their counterparts like Atlus(on the contrary, for Atlus). And everyone thinks Namco Bandai is an idiot for not bringing these games over(the Tales demographic especially). It has nothing to do with me in particular. It is basically a running joke at this point.

Eternal sonata sales was pretty bad, Valkyria chronicle did terrible (40k ), .Hack didn't do well after the first one. Starocean 4 did awful despite being very anticipated. I can't find any number for some of the game you mentioned, but I would be amazed if bandai namco game do better than 200-300k. The most popular shonen manage to make their way, but they are counting on a large fanbase already, but that's it. Dragon quest 8 is the only game I can think off right now (430k copy) that beat Tales games, but again, the name sales, and 430k copy isn't huge.

You provided exact sales numbers for none of the games you mentioned, except ToV localization which add nothing to the argument...

That's just obsessing over anime graphics. The idea that a game series like this has reached 100% (global) saturation is really silly. And to clarifying the statement I said advertisements cannot create potential customers, but time can. Selling the game on a new platform can. Those new players and those PS3/etc players(who may not be looking for a Tales of game, but maybe a "JRPG" or "Action RPG") have not all played with this series nor might be exposed to more than a passing name, if that. It is not Final Fantasy.

And where did I say the saturation point was reached? I don't think it is, but increasing sales can't be as easy as releasing more games. If most company have trouble breaking the 200k mark with a j-rpg, I don't see how something so simple would help them.

If they drop 1 million in publicity, do you know for sure they will make more in return? Jrpg market isn't bright in the first place. Maybe they will, but armchair economist like us right now can't answer it with the information we have.

Games that are succesful like persona barely made any publicity (if they did, sue me, I havent seen any). They can get away with very little because they know their demographic. Tales games producer should, but apparently, they go all out hoping to sell more, and fail everytime.

[Kiarax]

Are you just making numbers up now that you got called out for not posting any?

[BRP]

Man, the numbers don't even fucking matter to begin with lol. He can make them up if he wants. They don't refute anything. (It is like I've been saying a dozen times over. Were any of those localizations considered a failure? Less than half, easily.)

[Kaylia]

Didn't Symphonia sell really really well in the states because Nintendo helped them advertise?

Or at least that's what I always hear.

According to wiki

It debuted in Japan on August 29, 2003, selling 953,000 copies[2], in Canada and the United States on July 13, 2004, and in Europe on November 19, 2004. The game received a Japanese-only PlayStation 2 release on September 22, 2004, selling 486,000 copies

The game sold 118,000 copies during its first two weeks of sales in the U.S.[5] and went on to sell over 1.4 million copies worldwide

They lost copies in America it seem. These numbers don't add up (unless 1.4m is gamecube sales only).

I have no idea what the sales were for it, but I do wonder how much they paid to squeeze 150k more people.

[Kaylia]

Are you just making numbers up now that you got called out for not posting any?

They all come from wiki

Man, the numbers don't even fucking matter to begin with lol. He can make them up if he wants. They don't refute anything. (It is like I've been saying a dozen times over. Were any of those localizations considered a failure? Less than half, easily.)

They don't matter for my argument indeed. They do matter for you who pretend to know that Tales games fanbase would increase if they translated the other games.

[Kiarax]

The only one I even cared to look up myself (because I knew you were flat out wrong) was Valkyria Chronicles. Which has sold over half a million in America alone since release. Over twice what it's sold in Japan.

[Kaylia]

The only one I even cared to look up myself (because I knew you were flat out wrong) was Valkyria Chronicles. Which has sold over half a million in America alone since release. Over twice what it's sold in Japan.

Where did you get it?

I guess I was wrong, since wiki stated 33k copy in the first month, which I missed earlier. I know sales went higher after all the good review it got.

Despite having garnered positive press, sales of the game have been mixed. While it sold 77,000 copies in its first week of release in Japan, it only sold 33,000 copies in the United States during November 2008

[edit]
Sales jumped when they dropped to 30$ apparently in aprils...but I still can't find 500k.

[Kiarax]

VGChartz is probably still the best place for sales numbers, even though it's become shitty lately (only shows first 20 weeks of sales without an account). You can still see the total sales on the search results.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....a%20Chronicles

[BRP]

When you say a game does terrible(Star Ocean 4 did something like 210k units? Don't care to look it up again. More if you throw in the PS3 port) what exactly do you mean? Was the SO4 localization not profitable?

EDIT: Did the work:

240k - 360 (outsold Japan by a couple ten thousand.)
120k - PS3

[Kaylia]

VGChartz is probably still the best place for sales numbers, even though it's become shitty lately (only shows first 20 weeks of sales without an account). You can still see the total sales on the search results.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....a%20Chronicles

100k is more than my 40k for sure, but it's not half a million...or am I misreading this table somehow? Anyway..doesn't matter. Thank for the link.

When you say a game does terrible(Star Ocean 4 did something like 120k units? Don't care to look it up again. More if you throw in the PS3 port) what exactly do you mean? Was the SO4 localization not profitable?

Its predecessor sold more copy (less xbox/ps3 console is part of the problem, but not entirely). It was also a big production from tri-ace from what I could understand, and they were expecting more sales.

If 120k games can be profitable (and I agree), what make you think Tales studio are going bankrupt because they didn't localize more games? Their problems seem to be of a completely different nature.


And again, my argument was never that 200-300k sales aren't profitables. It's that jrpg/animes struggle to get over that in america. Disagree as much as you want, but it does seem to be a soft cap (even for ps2 games)...if it was easier to get above that, don't you think someone in the industry would have realized it by now?

240k - 360 (outsold Japan by a couple ten thousand.)
120k - PS3

It outsold japan on xbox? No way. Check sales for Tales of Vesperia, eternal sonata, lost odyssey and blue dragon ...it's similar.

Vgchartz say 320k up to this days. Not that it matters, it's still the same number as Tales games.

[Charismatic]

Not like the numbers on that are accurate anyway.

0 Sold in America for Destiny 2/Eternia..? I don't think so.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....=50&sort=Total



Just looked up .hack since that's Bandai stuff as well, and it just looks like numbers from them probably aren't accurate in general when talking about the west.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....=50&sort=Total

[Kiarax]

100k is more than my 40k for sure, but it's not half a million...or am I misreading this table somehow? Anyway..doesn't matter. Thank for the link.

Like I said, the actual game page only shows the first 20 weeks of sales. Check the numbers on the search result (page I linked) and you can still see the total sales. In this case, 570k US sales, 240k Japan, 100k elsewhere. Total of 910k sales worldwide.

[Kaylia]

Like I said, the actual game page only shows the first 20 weeks of sales. Check the numbers on the search result (page I linked) and you can still see the total sales. In this case, 570k US sales, 240k Japan, 100k elsewhere. Total of 910k sales worldwide.

I want to know what the fuck happened after April 2009, because it was at 100k five months later with 1000 copies per weeks. As much as I would like to (original game deserve money), something has to be broken here.

[Kiarax]

Doesn't list numbers, but you can see here it jumped back in to the top 5 in US sales during April:
http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire?story=23247
I'm not sure what (if anything?) happened to make it's sales jump back up, but it was noted in a number of places. Maybe a price drop or DLC or something. Numbers being off is obviously a possibility too, I can't say I generally pay too much attention to sales unless it's some no name company releasing awesome things.

[Parshias]

Not like the numbers on that are accurate anyway.

0 Sold in America for Destiny 2/Eternia..? I don't think so.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....=50&sort=Total



Just looked up .hack since that's Bandai stuff as well, and it just looks like numbers from them probably aren't accurate in general when talking about the west.
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals....=50&sort=Total

Vgchartz doesn't have good numbers for things earlier than PS2 generation, and even the earlier stuff for that system can be a little wonky.

But still, ToS2 and Vesperia 360 each sold 200-250k in NA. I have real trouble believing that localization is so expensive they cannot make money off of a quarter of a million copies sold. And did either game get any sort of advertisement?

I mean, look at Graces: it only sold a little over 200k in Japan. Launch the game over in the US and double your sales with no advertising. This isn't rocket science.

[Shojin]

Doesn't list numbers, but you can see here it jumped back in to the top 5 in US sales during April:
http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire?story=23247
I'm not sure what (if anything?) happened to make it's sales jump back up, but it was noted in a number of places. Maybe a price drop or DLC or something. Numbers being off is obviously a possibility too, I can't say I generally pay too much attention to sales unless it's some no name company releasing awesome things.

Yep, price cut happened. It's at 572k in US, and since we're talking about porting, the EU sales would count also, so add 104k to that. US sales actually outperformed Japans.

[Kaylia]

Yep, price cut happened. It's at 572k in US, and since we're talking about porting, the EU sales would count also, so add 104k to that. US sales actually outperformed Japans.

Where did you get 572k?

I mean, look at Graces: it only sold a little over 200k in Japan. Launch the game over in the US and double your sales with no advertising. This isn't rocket science.

If they are going bankrupt, that's probably why they aren't porting this one. With symphonia success, I dont see why they wouldnt tempt their chance again on the wii.

[Shojin]

In the case of Vesperia, PS3 versions first week sales in Japan beat the 360 versions entire JP LTD sales. It also fell short of the entire US LTD sales by 2k. PS3 version sold 225k in its opening week in Japan, US LTD sales for 360 version are 227k and Japans are 189k.

I think the good japan sales should at least warrant a port. I mean think about it, they already have the game fucking localized because they have the 360 US version out there. All they needed to do was localize the extra content they added to PS3 version.

[Shojin]

Where did you get 572k?

Kiarax just answered that.

[Kaylia]

I meant valkyria number, sorry.

[edit]
Nvm then, I thought you had another source than vgchartz.