Heading back stateside from Afghanistan tomorrow.

[Darus Grey]

Hence, doing it wrong.

[Cadsuane]

Your lack of knowledge is showing again. Not feeding the rest of your troll bait but mechanics when deployed are always in shitty situations because any commander worth a salt will a have a few during missions in case crap breaks down. You're right about cooks though, all they do is tell Filipino's who cook our shit to stop fucking each other in the latrines.

Nope, you're still gettin' trolled. I'll lay it out for you and the rest of the military fags, though it kind of spoils the fun.

There are a couple of angles here for posting this absolute gem of an image macro. There are those that bitch about any and all government employment and hence agree with the image in the literal sense; those guys aren't trolling, they're just advocating a stupid opinion. The other bunch (which is largely represented here) are a mostly liberal group that doesn't literally agree with the image ("welfare queens" not really being liberal parlance) but understand that it challenges a taboo that is itself emblematic of a larger cultural issue; these guys are trolling, and very nobly so. That's right, I mean to say trolling can be a noble moral imperative.

You see, Rhinox is right on when he alluded to nationalism and a manufactured romanticization of all things military being a tool of state propaganda. First you've gotta instill in the public imagination a romantic, heroic image of self-sacrificing soldiers performing their civic duty, which is fundamentally dishonest because the active military is and has always been throughout history manned by the poor, politically disenfranchised, and otherwise socially disadvantaged, rather than the most patriotic and courageous elements of society as is commonly advertised. Indentured poor are not nietzchean supermen, nor is it a great feat of self-sacrifice and civic duty to choose one of the best vocational opportunities available to you.

Hollywood has been playing that angle up since World War II, but there's still good 180 degree exceptions like Jarhead (oh by the way, yeah, what I'm talking about now? That's the central theme of Jarhead).

Second, stigmatize any and all dissident attitudes that take away from the military mystique. Some of this really is out of consideration for the psychological stress and danger that soldiers go through, but this is greatly and gratuitously exagerrated so that it mostly just exists to obfuscate any criticism of military practices or of the government that commands it. Once the making of any disparaging comment about military personnel passes into cultural taboo, any military undertaking will enjoy subconscious public support or at the very least benefit from hesitancy to voice any opinion that could be construed as a lack of "support for the troops".

As for whether any taboo exists, well, the reflexive and breathlessly scandalized responses to the image macro are kind of a dead give away. It actually became appropriate in this thread to talk about propriety and good taste, and this is the internet. Apparently some lines you still don't cross. As a thought experiment, imagine how stifled this topic would become on the evening news.

Third, enjoy the pay off, maintain the illusion. Any political statement about some issue of military action needs to be prologued with, to allude and divert to, and conclude with praise for the men and women of the armed forces. This works on so many different levels that I could devote several pages towards just this point, but I will say the following: People are more sympathetic to human interest stories than they are to questions of foreign policy, and in particular, they are sympathetic to soldiers as has been detailed. Hence, wars aren't cast in the light of geopolitics but rather the struggles of individual soldiers, which distracts from any real relevant question about a war effort and simultaneously aligns the public's perspective with that of the military, whose primary interest is to win the war which is NOT necessarily in the public's best interest.

So yeah, trolling and hitting that nerve is an important thing to do especially when it's been going on like this since forever. This sort of shit is a distraction, and it's based on lies.

[Kuya]

So what you're saying is, you hate the troops?

[Xno Kappa]

tl;dr

[Cadsuane]

I can see why you joined the military. Still, it's too bad, one of the better posts I've made, and they say I've made some good ones.

@Kuya: Obviously

[Cadsuane]

I don't see any effectual responses coming from the troops so, Kuya/Sath/Darus/Rhinox/etc., I wrote this big long post and edited it a million times, what do you think?

[*Shinzon*]

Poor people can't be patriotic and heroic, got it.

[Kuya]

I think it's right on the money. Military worship is a pretty dangerous thing when it makes it harder to legitimately criticize the military establishment, which i think is absolutely true in America. For example, Congress won't even cut funding for an ilegitimate war if The Troops are invoked, presumably, because the American people would think that Congress is putting the military in harms way by cutting off funding, even though that's the best and quickest way to end a useless war.

I don't know if military worship is as poignant elsewhere as it is in America, but it is a troubling sight since societies that put too much emphasis on their military aren't exactly known for their adherence to rights and democracy. It is even more jarring considering that most Americans do not actively contribute anything to the military, but take great pride. They treat it as if it were a people's army, when in reality, it is a professional military force. The military is less about patriotism and more about bussiness.

All that love for the military rings kind of hollow when you expect less than 1% of the population to shoulder the weight of running an empire. Only that hypothetical 1% sees any consequence. You only had to sacrifice a dollar for that small little flag.

[Cadsuane]

"Support the troops" is a huge deal in Canada, since alot of people have died in Afghanistan. They have those cute little ribbon bumper stickers and everything. It's a microcosm of the States basically.

[Kuya]

Poor people can't be patriotic and heroic, got it.

People certainly can join the military out of patriotism and heroism. But it might be nice to take into perspective that in a country that hasn't been in a war out of defense for decades, with ever increasing unemployment, and a volunteer professional military force, heroism and patriotism are probably the least relevant reasons for joining the military.

[Xzerios]

By all means, you may hate the military.

Dont be hating the folks that serve. Welcome them back, even if you dont agree with the war/reason/whatever. :3

[*Shinzon*]

It's one thing to worship government military ideology without question. It's another thing entirely to portray soldiers as the entirety of the problem, which is a difference most people fail to recognize. While the war was illegitimate the government, the people, were not going to cut spending to undermanned and under-equipped soldiers who were already there. Effectively killing many more potentially than we already needlessly did.

Your, not pointing anyone out specifically, problem is with the way the government used the military not with the men and women who are on the ground, with the exceptions of criminals like in Abu-grave for instance. Did I spell that wrong? And with the way the government preys on weak individuals to politically mislead them into believing something is true when in reality it's not, Bush Administration and the WMDs in Iraq.

To say what Caduane said so generally, you assume that those who join the military are incapable of doing what is right, and incapable of making sacrifice which is bullshit. Some may not join out of patriotic or heroic motivation, but they are most certainly capable of being those things once they are members. Not everyone who joins the military wants to blow shit up and kill a-rabs. Some people, you know actually want to genuinely be a part of this country's defense, and in some cases offense, despite participating in a war they don't agree with. If they need a profession there is nothing wrong with joining the military when it can provide experience that can be used in the private sector.

I don't agree with the war, but I certainly won't downplay the value of our soldiers lives. Heroic or not.

[Kuya]

Amazing. Cads just said that individual soldiers are irrelevant, and the next two post bring up invidual soldiers.

It's the internet, if some guy tells someone from the US military to eat a dick, then those dicks better be gone by the time the trolls arrive.

[*Shinzon*]

Sooooo, individual soldiers are irrelevant because you disagree with the with the public perception of what the military's composition is. That makes sense.

[Kuya]

OP can eat a dick

[Cadsuane]

Take a deep breath, clear your head, read carefully, and you will realize I didn't say anything you accused me of, or even anything particularly disparaging about soldiers.

Only warning.

[Xzerios]

By the way Kuya, Id like to mention the hairdo that man is sporting is quite fabulous.

[Rhinox]

I don't see any effectual responses coming from the troops so, Kuya/Sath/Darus/Rhinox/etc., I wrote this big long post and edited it a million times, what do you think?

I agree

very well said.

[Darus Grey]

It's one thing to worship government military ideology without question. It's another thing entirely to portray soldiers as the entirety of the problem, which is a difference most people fail to recognize.

I disagree to an extent, it is entirely the soldiers fault. We have a volunteer military, which means soldiers volunteer to fight these unjust wars.

To an extent I blame the social construct in which the military is the only reasonable job path for many soldiers coming from poor socio-economic background, and as such they pretty much sign up or join a gang(or frequently join a gang and THEN join the military).

But at the end of the day, if soldiers didn't volunteer to fight in these worthless wars, we wouldn't be able to fight them, so the blame is almost entirely on them.


The worst part isn't even the fact that we fight these wars, it's that we don't even get anything out of it, if we REALLY invaded Iraq for their oil and Afghanistan for their Lithium, I'm all for that, Imperialism ftw, might makes right all day long.

However that's not what we're doing, just like the korean war, vietnam, first iraq war, and others, they're all just busy-work. Hell America didn't even have legit reasons to enter WW1 and WW2, we're just fucking bored apparently.

If America wants to be an empire then it should do so and make no qualms about it, but starting these worthless wars that cost us money because we have nothing better to do with our soldiers is stupid...and soldiers are stupid for signing up for it.

What do soldiers really have to be proud of? What have they accomplished?

Fucking nothing.

Want to be a real patriot?, at least steal a fucking oil barrel well you're there.

[Xzerios]

Because the hive mind of the military decided


Lets go shoot shit! LOLZ!


Point is, the war is unjust yes, but they (the military as a whole) didnt start it; Someone though has to pick up the tab at the end of the day.