RDM Tanking Post 6/21 - they all give 1CE/300VE now

[Genrye]

Not terribly important. Something you can dd and ta on most of the time you can atonement as well.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Samurai

[Taruking]

Tanked Lord Ruthven on RDM/NIN today

33-35 +enmity from Gear/merit/food. Spam Hojo/Kurayami/Jubaku: Ichi and Cure 3 (cure cheat) for hate. Ichi spells only take 2 sec to cast and don't cost MP.

RDM tank still works, just gotta burn gil on ninja tools.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Level BLU or WHM if you want to play an unengaged tank. RDM is dead, move on.

[Onorgul]

Level BLU

Gonna print that out, frame it, and hang it on my wall for whenever I need a good chuckle.

[Draylo]

Gonna print that out, frame it, and hang it on my wall for whenever I need a good chuckle.

Mission accomplished.

[Claim]

urgh look what you did tsuko

[Jex]

Level BLU or WHM if you want to play an unengaged tank. RDM is dead, move on.

/thread

[Taruking]

Level BLU or WHM if you want to play an unengaged tank. RDM is dead, move on.

Try it before you make the comment. RDM is still a superior tank. BLU does not have the same survivability as RDM and require more support. Fast Cast IV is amazing, Lv76+ tank can come close to cap recast even without March. Not to mention they have access to Aquaveil now.

With +33enmity each ichi spell gives you roughly 310 VE and 100 CE, only takes 12 sec to rotate through Kurayami > Hojo > Jubaku and by the end of the cycle, you should be able to cast Kurayami again. That's 1.2 k hate (930 VE: 300 CE) in 12 sec, can be spammed non stop and do not cost MP. Also free up MP to spam cure 3.

Another big issue with BLU tank is small casting range. Doesn't work in the case of split tanking.

WHM tank? What makes you think it works better after Repose hate nerf and introductin of Divine Benison?

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

Not to mention they have access to Aquaveil now.

Oh, RDM has Aquaveil NOW? After all these years we finally have Aquaveil?? Yay!! Er... hang on a sec.. *scratches head*

[Taruking]

Oh, RDM has Aquaveil NOW? After all these years we finally have Aquaveil?? Yay!! Er... hang on a sec.. *scratches head*

The new version of Aquaveil, should be self-explanatory. There is a reason why SE nerfed CE spells. RDM would have been a much stronger tank job after level cap raise with Fast Cast IV and Aquaveil (no interruption for at least one hit taken).

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

The new version of Aquaveil, should be self-explanatory. There is a reason why SE nerfed CE spells. RDM would have been a much stronger tank job after level cap raise with Fast Cast IV and Aquaveil (no interruption for at least one hit taken).

RDM could hit the Spell Interruption Rate- cap just fine with the old version of Aquaveil, so that's no improvement.

[Taruking]

RDM could hit the Spell Interruption Rate- cap just fine with the old version of Aquaveil, so that's no improvement.

In order to hit spell interruption hit rate cap RDM must be wearing spell interrruption gear when they take damage, which is not possible when NM decides to double attack when you are casting ichi/stoneskin in usual gear. Also casting in spell interruption gear means RDM will have to sacrifice haste (in case of utsusemi) or MND/enhancing magic (stoneskin) depending on gear/merit.

There is no reason to merit spell interruption down effect now. Enmity and critical hit rate merits are more useful options. Not to mention the amount of inventory space you can save from not carring extra gear around.

[Dooom]

If I'm going to spam ninja spells for hate, why wouldn't I just do it on nin/drk, and replace C3 with Stun and Absorbs? Or hell, even on pld/nin, and still have access to all the other nice things pld has for tanking?

[Taruking]

If I'm going to spam ninja spells for hate, why wouldn't I just do it on nin/drk, and replace C3 with Stun and Absorbs? Or hell, even on pld/nin, and still have access to all the other nice things pld has for tanking?

Ichi spells only work for RDM because of Fast Cast. Without FC, it takes 4 sec to actually land the spells. Although both NIN and PLD are capable of hitting recast cap, they won't be able to spam ichi spells between utsusemi: Ichi and Ni.

The combination of Kurayami + Hojo + Jubaku is equivalent to a mini Flash/Stun with shorter recast and zero mp cost, which leaves plenty of MP for RDM to utilise cure cheat effectively.

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

Ichi spells only work for RDM because of Fast Cast. Without FC, it takes 4 sec to actually land the spells. Although both NIN and PLD are capable of hitting recast cap, they won't be able to spam ichi spells between utsusemi: Ichi and Ni.

Not like NIN or PLD would need those spells to tank in the first place.

The combination of Kurayami + Hojo + Jubaku is equivalent to a mini Flash/Stun with shorter recast and zero mp cost, which leaves plenty of MP for RDM to utilise cure cheat effectively.

Hmmm ok lemme break that down.

mini Flash/Stun with shorter recast and zero mp cost = something that doesn't exist in game
Kurayami + Hojo + Jubaku = mini Flash/Stun with shorter recast and zero mp cost
Kurayami + Hojo + Jubaku = something that doesn't exist in game ???

[Tsuko_Asura]

When did 300 CE/12 seconds become good?

[Nightfyre]

When did 300 CE/12 seconds become good?

^

I could outtank you in my sleep if that plus some MP-inefficient cure cheats are your idea of good CE gain.

I'd point out that your cycle would actually take longer than that due to needing to cast other spells (and get your cure cheats in), but by the time you cap hate and are thus able to cotank the mob will be dead so it's not like you have to worry about keeping shadows up or anything.

EDIT:

Another big issue with BLU tank is small casting range. Doesn't work in the case of split tanking.

Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit, Exuviation, Blank Gaze all work just fine if we're bouncing the mob back and forth and I can Actinic Burst when the mob wanders my way. Oh hey, that's all the hate tools I need...

[Tsuko_Asura]

Additionally, I fail to see how BLU's short casting range is at all effected by having more than one tank. Mobs are big bro, there's plenty of room to stand.

Repose enmity really nerfed, though? Ew :/

[homerun]

Seriously tho, even if someone did find some magic combination that did let rdm tank, why would SE allow it? It would get nerfed again. rdm tanking was fun while it lasted, time to move on.

[Mercilessturtle]

You don't use RDM tanks for their awesome enmity gain, you use them because they have a massive advantage in survivability and need less support. They still have those advantages, now you just have to wait an extra 2 minutes for them to finish building CE because cure cheats cost so much. The alternatives are have a pld do the same thing, take just as long to build hate, but needing more support, or have a blu do it and be more likely to die.

Unless I am forgetting something there's only 4 mobs worth considering rdm for to start with? JoL, ouryu, ruthven and armed gears? So now you have to make the blms hold back on ouryu's first flight because the RDM won't be CE capped until the second take off. In a small group where you are actually breaking JoLs regen, anybody can have CE capped long before the DDs start. Both of those rdm is still the way to go. Ruthven could go either way, and gears I would use a blu now. Wow, going from being useful on 4 mobs to being useful on 3 mobs sure is something to cry about.