RDM Tanking Post 6/21 - they all give 1CE/300VE now

[Yarko]

LOL? I can't really think of many people that used Aquaveil on a regular basis, because it didn't really work when you needed it to. With this now essentially being a second Blink in a manner of speaking, I will most definitely be using it.

Aquaveil was the shit. Hermit's Wand + Genbu's Shield + Karasutengu + Druid's Rope + af1+1 body + magnetic earring + torque + aquaveil = uninterruptable ichi = invincible. Allowed me to tank shit with barely any support and no elegy easily. Haven't logged on for a while now, how did they change aquaveil?


Edit: Fuck you, SE.

[Amok]

May be able to do that without all that equipment which is potentially even better. Though we still don't know exactly how it works. Didn't have time to try it out this morning. I'm sure someone will before I get home tonight. If not I'll give it a go.

[Eugene]

Because SE did not intend RDM to be a tank, and SE wants us to play by their rules. Anyone remember the BRD tank nerf from way back when? Same deal.

IIRC brd tanking wasn't too terribly long lasting (but i dunno this was long time ago). In any event, RDM tanking has been around a while, it not like a quick snuff to a newly blossoming strategy. Mazurka hate was highly abusable as well, i remember people tossing cure 1s on other players in sky, casting 1 or 2 mazurkas and running away with a mob. RDM tanking is not nearly abusable as that.

It really seems that SE just wants to steer players back along the lines of paladin blood tanking, especially with items like Creed Collar. There are a whole host of new pdt - gear as well that are for pld.

I don't know, I just know I put a lot of time, money, and practice into my tanking set and in one blow SE decided to completely put a stop to it. It seems a bit unfair, but its up to SE to make the big decisions, and if they feel that they want to take the game in a different direction, we either have to bite the bullet or leave the game. NO amount of complaining, especially here on BG, is going to change the minds of the SE devs.

[Silenka]

Certainly giving warriors more options to use shields with a one-handed axe or sword is also trying to steer FFXI back to blood tanking. I don't think it will work, though. Perhaps enough paladins complained about being out-tanked by every job that can take a hit and cast shadows? Whatever the reason, they did it, and it's probably not coming back unless people find a viable workaround such as the cure cheat.

[mijean]

how much enmity was it before the update ?

bump please, kaeko already updated his blog, don't know the old values <.<

[Crab_Cake]

bump please, kaeko already updated his blog, don't know the old values <.<

From what I recall : Sleep 1 was 320/320 CE/VE. Sleep 2 and Dispel were 480/480.

I forgot what blind and bind were though.

[Taruking]

I am more inclined to think changes like these only happen when RDM tanking has gained popularity and PLD's role as main tank job is threatened. RDM/NIN does work better in VNM. If you are going to spam dispel on Verthandi might as well get a highly self sufficient RDM tank.

[Amok]

From an old post on zham:
Blind 1 CE & 640 VE
Bind 1 CE & 640 VE

[Cursed]

Well back on subject and less PLD vs RDM vs DRK vs SAM vs NIN vs WAR
More RDM.

I would like to remind everyone that this really doesn't effect RDM's ability to solo.

*Unless of course we're talking about mob theft/stealing/mpk.

As it stands, I think RDM/NINs just really need to re-establish a new playing/tanking style.
Cure Cheats mirroring PLD is a step in the right direction. As stated in the original post.

SE mentioned sometime last year they planned for RDM to taking up more front line job roles.

If you ask me to guess what the future of RDM looks like with regards to role in Alliances/Parties, it would look something like this

-RDM/NIN dual wielding swords and Meleeing

-Enspell2 spam, Enspell3 spam if they release higher tiers as the level cap rises.

-Higher base DMG Swords with added stats - Leave the PDT gear for PLD, give RDM some swords with Elemental Magic Skill,MAB,MDB, Sword skill +, Augments Refresh, Enfeebling Magic+ (don't you dare fucking mention baselard)

-A Hybrid WS or two in addition to death blossom which provide some kind of enfeebling effect while also dealing a decent amount of DMG. Not on par with Atonement, but something along the lines where the DMG is more consistant rather than a huge spike.

-Higher Tier Enfeebling and Enhancing Magic spells, such as SlowIII, Stop, Haste2, RefreshII,ParalyzeIII, GravityII, BindII, BlindIII, BioIV, DiaIV, Ice Spikes II, Shock SpikesII.

-Better DD gear - Something that RDM really doesn't lack at the moment. A RDM/NIN can already deal out decent dmg providing they are merited/equiped right. But I think SE will probably pump out some gear that is RDM specific and focuses entirely on melee benefits.

SE is obviously fine tuning Jobs to address age old problems. It seems they are putting their efforts behind WAR/DNC being a viable co or assistant tank to PLD.

The result of all the above will just be a more complete RDM job. Where the Job serves the purpose it was created for, and that is versatility, and not dominance over other specialty jobs such as PLD or WHM.

[Taruking]

Finetuning old job <> nerfing existing jobs.

Anyone who thinks cure cheat or melee will work for RDM tanking does not understand how RDM tanking works.

[Cursed]

Finetuning old job <> nerfing existing jobs.

Anyone who thinks cure cheat or melee will work for RDM tanking does not understand how RDM tanking works.

I think we understand how RDM tanking USED to work just fine. If you want to talk about that, feel free to make another thread. Call it "RDM tanking Pre-June 21st 2010"

[Taruking]

Ppl seriously think copying PLD's cure cheat is going to make RDM a viable tank? Cure cheat is never mp efficient for both PLD and RDM. PLD used it as a supplement to their JAs and Atonement. That's why they lose out to RDM in fights involving split tanking such as VNM because they can't really hit mobs for hate.

[Korremar]

Well back on subject and less PLD vs RDM vs DRK vs SAM vs NIN vs WAR
More RDM.

I would like to remind everyone that this really doesn't effect RDM's ability to solo.

*Unless of course we're talking about mob theft/stealing/mpk.

As it stands, I think RDM/NINs just really need to re-establish a new playing/tanking style.
Cure Cheats mirroring PLD is a step in the right direction. As stated in the original post.

SE mentioned sometime last year they planned for RDM to taking up more front line job roles.

If you ask me to guess what the future of RDM looks like with regards to role in Alliances/Parties, it would look something like this

-RDM/NIN dual wielding swords and Meleeing

-Enspell2 spam, Enspell3 spam if they release higher tiers as the level cap rises.

-Higher base DMG Swords with added stats - Leave the PDT gear for PLD, give RDM some swords with Elemental Magic Skill,MAB,MDB, Sword skill +, Augments Refresh, Enfeebling Magic+ (don't you dare fucking mention baselard)

-A Hybrid WS or two in addition to death blossom which provide some kind of enfeebling effect while also dealing a decent amount of DMG. Not on par with Atonement, but something along the lines where the DMG is more consistant rather than a huge spike.

-Higher Tier Enfeebling and Enhancing Magic spells, such as SlowIII, Stop, Haste2, RefreshII,ParalyzeIII, GravityII, BindII, BlindIII, BioIV, DiaIV, Ice Spikes II, Shock SpikesII.

-Better DD gear - Something that RDM really doesn't lack at the moment. A RDM/NIN can already deal out decent dmg providing they are merited/equiped right. But I think SE will probably pump out some gear that is RDM specific and focuses entirely on melee benefits.

SE is obviously fine tuning Jobs to address age old problems. It seems they are putting their efforts behind WAR/DNC being a viable co or assistant tank to PLD.

The result of all the above will just be a more complete RDM job. Where the Job serves the purpose it was created for, and that is versatility, and not dominance over other specialty jobs such as PLD or WHM.

Everything about this post is bad.

[Amok]

So, basically, on anything you can melee RDM survivability is overkill and both DD and PLD would do better? On anything you can't melee, you can't build enmity better than PLD anymore?

If that's the case, is RDM definitely out of the picture?

[Carth]

So, basically, on anything you can melee RDM survivability is overkill and both DD and PLD would do better? On anything you can't melee, you can't build enmity better than PLD anymore?

If that's the case, is RDM definitely out of the picture?

RDMs can still tank, but it certainly won't be worth it since they have no efficient method of gaining CE now.

[Fingerspitz]

RDMs can still tank, but it certainly won't be worth it since they have no efficient method of gaining CE now.

...then they can't tank. Don't split hairs. Especially in the long types of fight rdm is suited to, if you can't stay at or near the CE cap you are not going to have hate. And to whoever suggested it, I severely doubt that you are going to cast enough enspell IIs at 80 CE a pop to reach that 10,000 CE cap (not counting losses due to shadows and taking damage).

A lot of people seem to be rejoicing about this as a deserved nerf, but honestly while rdm was extremely strong I thought there were still plenty of roles for pld. Pld did more damage, facetanked more efficiently on anything that hit for more than 100 a swing or so (past the point where shield blocks > phalanx, although you could sub rdm and get both) was harder to oneshot and could use flash and JAs to spike hate in emergencies or for quick fights. But SE has always discouraged the kind of creativity that brought us nin and rdm (and briefly brd) tanks. I don't know why they want everything in the game to be either melee burned or tanked by a pld, but minus a couple hardcore nins and whms with yagrush i think they've gotten their wish. gfg.

Hi ahlah~

[homerun]

This is such an awful change. Pld wasn't the best tank enmity wise but it was viable for everything. Nerfing is such a shitty way to balance games.

Drk is still probably the best non-engage tank but it's going to be really lame if they have all new content resist dread spikes like t2+ vnms.

[Pilfer]

Ninja used to use the elemental wheel to tank no? Rdm will gain these at level 80 plus spamming poison and cure cheat

[Ohaigaiz]

Ninja used to use the elemental wheel to tank no? Rdm will gain these at level 80 plus spamming poison and cure cheat

what

[Colenzo]

Ninja used to use the elemental wheel to tank no? Rdm will gain these at level 80 plus spamming poison and cure cheat

somebody tell me this guy is going to be ok