RDM Tanking Post 6/21 - they all give 1CE/300VE now

[Gustave]

Pld also picked up a few more -pdt option to close the gap of sword/shield vs earth staff.

[Spira]

SMN burn...

My Tank mob is running all over the place even if I sleep and dispel him 30 times and give him a few stone and thunder 1s also.

Its still possible to burn though but gotta watch diamond dusts a bit more if you have a low level sync.

Cause the cfh mob can run away from the horde easealy.

this isn't an issue at all.

a RDM who holds the tank and all the mobs in place does so without making use of his subjob, so you can easily find alternative methods of generating CE instead of the usual sleep/blind/dispel...

The best subjob for this is BST really. 15s cooldown, 320 CE.. you'll cap hate in no time.
And in the case of Koro at least, the CFH mob is usually a much higher level NM or Gigas, so you don't even have to worry about charming it.

In other words, it does nothing vs Astralburn holding RDMs...

[Ophannus]

So has anyone hit 80 yet and seen how Convert works when subbed?

[Kaeko]

bump please, kaeko already updated his blog, don't know the old values <.<

Old values in (CE/VE)
Sleep = 320/320
Sleep II = 480/480
Dispel = 320/320
Bind = 1/640
Blind = 1/640
Blind II = 1/640

[TheMysteriousX]

Can someone bottom line this for me.

If I were to log on later and tank omega like I did last week, what are my options now for CE?

[rog]

SMN burn...

My Tank mob is running all over the place even if I sleep and dispel him 30 times and give him a few stone and thunder 1s also.

Its still possible to burn though but gotta watch diamond dusts a bit more if you have a low level sync.

Cause the cfh mob can run away from the horde easealy.

Or if you stop wasting exp by cfhing mobs for no reason, then there's absolutely no change to astral burns.

[rog]

Can someone bottom line this for me.

If I were to log on later and tank omega like I did last week, what are my options now for CE?

Bring a level 10 mule with a cure cheat set. Otherwise there are no realistic ways to build ce.

[Mojo]

You have none. RDM tanking is dead. Anybody denying it at this point is just squirming until the inevitable sets in.

[TheMysteriousX]

Bring a level 10 mule with a cure cheat set. Otherwise there are no realistic ways to build ce.

Figured. Time to sell my tanking gear then.

Augmented my ACP body with Enmity/Fastcast just 2 weeks ago too.

Tanking on RDM was about the only thing I still enjoyed in game, maybe it's quitting time.

[Izildur]

yep time to retire our rdm/nin's - thanks SE for not knowing anything about your own fucking game. we could all jump over to whm/nin but i rly cant be arsed leveling whm also SE would most probably then nerf barspells as its just not right for a mage to tank

yep time to trade in my enmity acp body for something else

[Kyreth]

Time to retire your RDM/NIN tanks, anyway.

The only sane reason I can imagine for this is S-E intends to give us beefier debuffs/support spells and intends to firmly plant our ass in the back lines again. Tier III debuffs, maybe? A return to being Refresh (II) bitches?

It doesn't stop us from being solo turtles, but unless another sub offers enmity we can work with, this might be a done deal.

Do our merited debuffs still generate the old levels of CE/VE? Could in theory someone spam those and maintain some level of hate stability?

[machiko]

Or if you stop wasting exp by cfhing mobs for no reason, then there's absolutely no change to astral burns.

How are you going to BP on target mob without it being in cfh status? Using a BP on a mob generates hate on the smn, if you build hate on a mob and then claim another mob making it yellow then that's more work than it's worth surely.

[Kaeko]

For Astral burns, you can still spam Enspell IIs to build CE (80 a pop) if you don't have anyone to cure or a cure-cheat set. I never figured out the BP CE but it's fairly low. Also, pulling a mob gives you 200 CE to start.

[rog]

How are you going to BP on target mob without it being in cfh status? Using a BP on a mob generates hate on the smn, if you build hate on a mob and then claim another mob making it yellow then that's more work than it's worth surely.

Resting will get you hate on everything. There's no need to touch any mobs, and smns can bp anything.

[lolwut]

The only sane reason I can imagine for this is S-E intends to give us beefier debuffs/support spells and intends to firmly plant our ass in the back lines again. Tier III debuffs, maybe? A return to being Refresh (II) bitches?

Obviously they want us to be beefier support. That's why they nerfed our Hastega option and gave one to Blu.

[friedfunk]

For AB's, RDM/BRD + Etude works too.

[Max™]

Wait, did Nin/Bst just become more viable than alternatives or something?

[rog]

Wait, did Nin/Bst just become more viable than alternatives or something?

Sort of, but it still sucks.

[Gadritan]

Clearly it's RDM/PLD or bust.

[Mercilessturtle]

Seriously, this isn't worth crying over. Consider the stuff RDM was good for tanking in the first place: jol, ouryu, uh was there anything else? Lord ruthven I guess. How do you think pld builds CE on those? Cure cheats work fine for pld who has less MP and a "convert" that requires 300 tp, they work fine for rdm too.

With a very easy cure potency set and 1000 MP, you're at ~7300 CE after dumping all your mp, converting and doing it again, assuming you have no +enmity at all. Which you'll be done with right as ouryu is waking up. A pld isn't going to have that much MP, and you have to let him waste time with sleep pots before hand to build up TP for chivalry for him to be able to keep up. And then the rdm is sitting there taking 0 damage because of stoneskin, while the pld is losing little bits of CE. Before your next convert is up you'll have gotten back enough MP to cap out your CE using cure cheats from ballad+refresh+gear refresh.

All that happened is for fights where you can't engage, rdm was reduced from "better at generating enmity and better at surviving" to just "as good as pld at generating enmity and better at surviving". For fights where you can engage, rdm should never have been tanking to begin with, use a DD.