RDM Tanking Post 6/21 - they all give 1CE/300VE now

[Eugene]

Its a pain for the people who sank money into a set. Its also a pain that i don't have a tank to tank when short manned. If i was first person out to tiamat, or late night fafnir when we had maybe one other tank on who cares if i wasn't most efficient? I could still tank it.

But yeah its not worth cry over because its not going to change.

[Nevex]

Seriously, this isn't worth crying over. Consider the stuff RDM was good for tanking in the first place: jol, ouryu, uh was there anything else? Lord ruthven I guess.

Stopped reading here. There was nothing of importance RDM wasn't good "good for tanking".

[Mercilessturtle]

Stopped reading here. There was nothing of importance RDM wasn't good "good for tanking".

Yes there is, and it is "practically everything". DD/nin is the best choice for almost everything. Just because RDM can tank pretty much anything, doesn't mean it is a good choice. Pretending rdm is good for everything is just as stupid as pretending pld is.

[Blasta]

*Warning: Immature raging below*

I just dont understand why SE can't fully focus on XIV, i mean nice that they are still updating but cmon, gimping one of the most popular job and giving it a baramnesia. Of course the job is still superior, but adding Enspell 2s that only really benefit you when you are fighting against some shitty mobs.

Now Enspells don't suck but they aren't good either, which is okay since RDM ain't supposed to be master of meleeing. So what really boils my piss is that they added Murgleis that sucks so bad, I mean what the fuck, RDM doesn't even have a single relic/mythic to go for. I know the relic shit doesn't touch many ppl's lifes, but imagine playing FF7 and cloud's best weapon is a fucking magic staff.

[Eugene]

Because they want to crank every last ounce of money out of the people who are not going to 14.

[Araelus]

Because they want to crank up everyone who is not going to 14 so they go to 14 instead.

ftfy

[Taruking]

Seriously, this isn't worth crying over. Consider the stuff RDM was good for tanking in the first place: jol, ouryu, uh was there anything else? Lord ruthven I guess. How do you think pld builds CE on those? Cure cheats work fine for pld who has less MP and a "convert" that requires 300 tp, they work fine for rdm too.

Do you even know what you are talking about? Reason why RDMs excel in those fights are the same reason why PLD sub RDM for JOL and Ouryu. Cure cheat is NEVER a MP efficient way to build hate. PLD manage to keep up with RDM/NIN in those fight because of RDM SJ.

That's probably why SE decided to nerf CE spells because you can't really tank Tier 3 VNMs without NIN SJ, which makes RDM a superior tank compared to PLD (on top of other benefits such as Dispel spam, self haste/refresh etc).

[ZhiGaruda]

Do you even know what you are talking about? Reason why RDMs excel in those fights are the same reason why PLD sub RDM for JOL and Ouryu. Cure cheat is NEVER a MP efficient way to build hate. PLD manage to keep up with RDM/NIN in those fight because of RDM SJ.

That's probably why SE decided to nerf CE spells because you can't really tank Tier 3 VNMs without NIN SJ, which makes RDM a superior tank compared to PLD (on top of other benefits such as Dispel spam, self haste/refresh etc).

You used the phrase "tank Tier 3 VNM" which basically nullifies any and all aspect of intelligence, should there have ever been any, from your post.

You don't tank Tier 3 VNM's, you kill them. RDM/NIN using anything other than Blizzard III, Thunder III or any other form of damage-dealing nuke to fight a Tier 3 VNM should be changing job to a MNK/NIN or SAM/NIN anyways.

[Mercilessturtle]

Do you even know what you are talking about? Reason why RDMs excel in those fights are the same reason why PLD sub RDM for JOL and Ouryu.

No shit, and now neither pld nor rdm can sleep spam. So now they both have to resort to cure cheats. Duh? And yet people are crying "rdm tanking is dead" when rdm is still better than pld.

That's probably why SE decided to nerf CE spells because you can't really tank Tier 3 VNMs without NIN SJ, which makes RDM a superior tank compared to PLD (on top of other benefits such as Dispel spam, self haste/refresh etc).

Except that tanking half the t3 vnms with rdm was stupid in the first place. Use a DD/nin, they will tank it and kill it both, instead of just one or the other. If SE wanted pld to tank more, they should add more stuff like orcus where pld is actually a good tank. And for ruthven rdm is still the better choice, it is once again cure cheat for hate on pld or cure cheat for hate on rdm, but have stoneskin, fastcast, and need less support.

[Taruking]

You used the phrase "tank Tier 3 VNM" which basically nullifies any and all aspect of intelligence, should there have ever been any, from your post.

You don't tank Tier 3 VNM's, you kill them. RDM/NIN using anything other than Blizzard III, Thunder III or any other form of damage-dealing nuke to fight a Tier 3 VNM should be changing job to a MNK/NIN or SAM/NIN anyways.

LR spam AOE TP moves that drain 400+ HP from each player, nasty gaze attack. All of Verthandi aoe TP moves can potentially cause havoc if left unstunned. Megascissors reset hate again not easy to stun without 3rd party tool. Lowman with split tanks means the possibility of wiping is close to zero.

No shit, and now neither pld nor rdm can sleep spam. So now they both have to resort to cure cheats. Duh? And yet people are crying "rdm tanking is dead" when rdm is still better than pld

Except that tanking half the t3 vnms with rdm was stupid in the first place. Use a DD/nin, they will tank it and kill it both, instead of just one or the other. If SE wanted pld to tank more, they should add more stuff like orcus where pld is actually a good tank. And for ruthven rdm is still the better choice, it is once again cure cheat for hate on pld or cure cheat for hate on rdm, but have stoneskin, fastcast, and need less support.

You do know PLD has more hate tools than cure spell, right?

[Mercilessturtle]

You do know the only ones that are relevant are flash and sentinel right? Flash is only 180 CE and a fairly long recast, and sentinel just gives the pld 30s of double CE cures to make up for their smaller MP pool. Nobody has issues capping VE as any job. Of course, if you really think flash and sentinel is going to make the difference, you know rdm/pld would be fine for all the stuff pld was previously doing pld/rdm right? And that either job could /blu and use blank gaze?

[Taruking]

You do know the only ones that are relevant are flash and sentinel right? Flash is only 180 CE and a fairly long recast, and sentinel just gives the pld 30s of double CE cures to make up for their smaller MP pool. Nobody has issues capping VE as any job. Of course, if you really think flash and sentinel is going to make the difference, you know rdm/pld would be fine for all the stuff pld was previously doing pld/rdm right? And that either job could /blu and use blank gaze?

For the love of god, stop posting because you know nothing about PLD tanking.

Good luck holding Lord Ruthven as RDM/PLD. Before you try to bring up JoL and Ouryu, think of all the possible SJ PLD can use other than RDM SJ.

RDM/BLU vs PLD/BLU? Did you just miss the part about Flash and Sentinel?

[Day]

WHAT IF YOU CAN"T CANCEL IT

[Mercilessturtle]

You know, being both stupid and a dismissive asshat isn't a great combination. Which part of: "you know rdm/pld would be fine for all the stuff pld was previously doing pld/rdm right?" has you thinking ruthven exactly? This isn't complicated so I'm really not sure how I can make it any easier for you to understand. In cases where one tank has to /nin, so does the other. That makes rdm just "better" than pld instead of "in a completely different league" than pld. In cases where pld doesn't need /nin, neither does rdm. And rdm gets stoneskin, MDB, fastcast, more MP, convert, and doesn't need to drag an extra rdm along for support. So in that case, once again rdm is now simply "better" instead of "WAY WAY WAY better".

[TheMysteriousX]

rdm/pld

And that was the moment I knew for sure you were trolling the shit out of this thread.

[Day]

And that was the moment I knew for sure you were trolling the shit out of this thread.

I'll never understand these posts. Obviously this is sarcasm, and you're saying that surely they cannot be serious and most certainly must be trolling, yet you've continued to respond, as well as given the poster an out that makes everyone else the fool and them the wiser.

[TheMysteriousX]

I'll never understand these posts. Obviously this is sarcasm, and you're saying that surely they cannot be serious and most certainly must be trolling, yet you've continued to respond, as well as given the poster an out that makes everyone else the fool and them the wiser.

I'm half biting (which I shouldn't do) and half making sure that others know. Because someone will try and continue arguing with them.

To put things back on topic, at 99 RDM should get access to the high-enmity Ni-ninjutsu... will this make RDM tanking viable again?

80CE/240VE if my memory serves.

EDIT: 2 spells @ 45s recast each, so 80 CE every 22 seconds w/max fast cast/haste.

[Taruking]

You know, being both stupid and a dismissive asshat isn't a great combination. Which part of: "you know rdm/pld would be fine for all the stuff pld was previously doing pld/rdm right?" has you thinking ruthven exactly? This isn't complicated so I'm really not sure how I can make it any easier for you to understand. In cases where one tank has to /nin, so does the other. That makes rdm just "better" than pld instead of "in a completely different league" than pld. In cases where pld doesn't need /nin, neither does rdm. And rdm gets stoneskin, MDB, fastcast, more MP, convert, and doesn't need to drag an extra rdm along for support. So in that case, once again rdm is now simply "better" instead of "WAY WAY WAY better".

You are retard end of story. If RDM get to sub PLD for Flash and Sentinel, PLD should be able to sub DRK or BST for extra hate tools and get to keep Flash/Sentinel at the same time. Not to mention PLD have access to way more +enm gear than RDM.

[Mercilessturtle]

You are retard end of story. If RDM get to sub PLD for Flash and Sentinel, PLD should be able to sub DRK or BST for extra hate tools and get to keep Flash/Sentinel at the same time.

They can, that is the point. For stuff you don't need /nin, hate is a non issue for either job. Pld did /rdm for easy hate, now they will do something else. Rdm didn't need hate from sub, so they did /nin. Now they will use their subjob for hate too. So it is just survivability and support, where rdm wins. Let me break this discussion down for you since you seem confused:

bunch of rdms: boo hoo rdm tanking is dead and I wasted all the time getting gear for it
me: the small list of stuff rdm was good for before, rdm is still better than pld for
you: HURR DURR

Stuff you rdm tank is split into two categoies: ones where you need shadows, and ones where you don't. I am sure I am forgetting something, but basically that amounts to ouryu and jol in the latter, and ruthven and armed gears maybe in the former. In either case, rdm is better than pld. You intentionally being obtuse and pulling arguments from column A and applying them to column B doesn't change that.

[Uzor]

So has anyone hit 80 yet and seen how Convert works when subbed?

It was a full convert when I tried it.