Wiki Update Thread, Help wanted Apply within...

[Mojo]

The unintentional mismanaging of a few thousand dollars is pretty damn petty.

[Priran]

The unintentional mismanaging of a few thousand dollars is pretty damn petty.

Stealing donation money is not petty.

Selling work you did not do for thousands of dollars is not petty.

[Mojo]

Stealing donation money is not petty.

Selling work you did not do for thousands of dollars is not petty.

They didn't steal any donation money. There was around $2000 left from what was spent on their server and bandwidth costs. All of it went into the raffle that was given back to donors. Would they have pocketed the money if people didn't ask about where it went? Probably. Is that even a big deal considering the vast amount of work they put into the project? I don't think so. I'm sure nobody really even cared about the shit they got from the raffle anyways.

Also, anybody who uploaded anything to the wiki lost any sort of "rights" over it. It's the same with this forum and it's the same with BG wiki. If you think overwise, you're wrong. I know that's not the 'coolest' thing ever to work on something then have someone sell it, but that's just the way the internet works. The move to wikia was unavoidable anyways, they simply weren't getting enough money from donations. Their only other choice was to fill it with ads. Money would have been made either way. Again, considering that they started it and put in a lot of work, I don't really see a problem with them selling it. If you're really so sad about it, don't go around doing work on something someone else has the rights to.

[Mizango]

Sorry Otherwiki is the anti-christ, just because people are either too stupid or too new to remember the drama doesn't make it okay. It's like saying let's forget Hitler killed the jews because some people don't know about it or weren't around when it happened. Except in this case, it was worse than Hitler killing the jews.

Wow, really? You actually took it there?

Charitwo

LOOOL. The fact that people think he's knowledgeable has never ceased being hilarious to me. He and I started out on the same server and even then he was a joke of a mage.

Oh man thanks for the laughs, I hadnt heard his named mentioned in about 2 years.

[Cantih]

tbh, the reason I don't use BG wiki is not its lack of info, but rather because it's fugly as hell.
Sorry. It's silly, but, I can't help it.

[Spider-Dan]

Stealing donation money is not petty.

Selling work you did not do for thousands of dollars is not petty.

I think we should resolve this discussion by arguing over 4-year-old "facts."

Here, let me start:

[Priran]

Also, anybody who uploaded anything to the wiki lost any sort of "rights" over it. It's the same with this forum and it's the same with BG wiki. If you think overwise, you're wrong. I know that's not the 'coolest' thing ever to work on something then have someone sell it, but that's just the way the internet works. The move to wikia was unavoidable anyways, they simply weren't getting enough money from donations. Their only other choice was to fill it with ads. Money would have been made either way. Again, considering that they started it and put in a lot of work, I don't really see a problem with them selling it. If you're really so sad about it, don't go around doing work on something someone else has the rights to.

Being a douchebag because it's within your rights to be a douchebag doesn't mean you're not a douchebag.

[ringthree]

I think we should resolve this discussion by arguing over 4-year-old "facts."

Here, let me start:

This is the only 4 star post in this thread.

/applaud

[rabidmuskrat]

I've always kind of wondered about the boycott over the wiki. It seems to me that the guy everyone is pissed about isn't involved in it anymore so the boycott is misdirected.

Now if you guys knew of another project he was working on and wanted to boycott that, then I'd understand.

[Ashira]

They didn't steal any donation money. There was around $2000 left from what was spent on their server and bandwidth costs. All of it went into the raffle that was given back to donors. Would they have pocketed the money if people didn't ask about where it went? Probably. Is that even a big deal considering the vast amount of work they put into the project? I don't think so. I'm sure nobody really even cared about the shit they got from the raffle anyways.

Hook, line, and sinker. That's what they wanted everyone to believe.

I recall quite vividly the line from the Wikia VP guy, stating.. just give us a figure that sounds about correct as far as what you're missing, and we will cover it, and no one the wiser.

Not to mention how many times I hear people just say "well, I looked this up on the wiki, but i guess it's not right..." Yeah, fantastic resource, that.

[Ksandra]

It seems to me that the guy everyone is pissed about isn't involved in it anymore so the boycott is misdirected.

what?

I'm guessing you don't know who people are pissed at then considering it's a. more than one person, and b. clearly some are still involved on the site.

ie:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sp...utions/Ganiman

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sp...tions/Charitwo


btw:

for those that are interested in BGwiki for FF14, we're still looking for an administrator.

[Divinius]

I hate what the founders of otherwiki did, and I agree that it was unethical. I donated too, and was just as pissed as everyone else. I also very much admire the reaction by BG to create their own version in an attempt to shun otherwiki.

But the unfortunate fact is that otherwiki has too much visibility, fame, popularity, whatever, etc. to just die off, and is always going to be the bigger of the two entities, and the one used by more of the total FFXI community. Sure, it sucks, but sticking your head in the sand and/or bitching about it isn't going to change it.

You don't need to forgive them, you just need to accept it and move on.

Also, the fact that this thread was Godwin'd by the 9th post is impressive. Probably not a record, but has to be close.

[ringthree]

Hook, line, and sinker. That's what they wanted everyone to believe.

I recall quite vividly the line from the Wikia VP guy, stating.. just give us a figure that sounds about correct as far as what you're missing, and we will cover it, and no one the wiser.

Not to mention how many times I hear people just say "well, I looked this up on the wiki, but i guess it's not right..." Yeah, fantastic resource, that.

And how exactly did we find out that information? LOL

Are you really trying to turn this into drama again? I don't think anyone here has said that the otherwiki people were in the right. In fact, the person you quoted even said that it was wrong. Holding a grudge this long, against people that don't even care anymore, is just too much for me.

If I see something wrong on the otherwiki I fix it (and no, 99% of the time it does not get reversed). I had much more passion about contributing to the BG wiki, but not very many other people did. I just took the pragmatic path. Some other people here should probably consider doing the same.

It's time to let go and move on.

You don't need to forgive them, you just need to accept it and move on.

Well said. Another 4-star post.

[Mojo]

Being a douchebag because it's within your rights to be a douchebag doesn't mean you're not a douchebag.

Not arguing that he isn't a douchebag, just pointing out that crying out over petty shit for years standing is pretty silly, especially when it divides the community in a way that makes it more difficult to find information.

Hook, line, and sinker. That's what they wanted everyone to believe.

I recall quite vividly the line from the Wikia VP guy, stating.. just give us a figure that sounds about correct as far as what you're missing, and we will cover it, and no one the wiser.

Not to mention how many times I hear people just say "well, I looked this up on the wiki, but i guess it's not right..." Yeah, fantastic resource, that.

Whoah nice witty one liner! Really though, I'd accuse all of the people who are so adamantly opposed to the wiki of jumping blindly and the cool-kid Taj mob mentality bandwagon before stepping back and actually taking a look at the situation for what it was. Reasonable people had brought up speculation as to what might have happened to most of the money, nobody wanted to listen to it though.

Isn't it ironic that you'll so easily accept the "What Wikia VP guy said" heresay considering where it came from yet believing reasonable explanations from someone you don't like is just out of the question? Even if it is true, big deal. $2000 is not a lot of money by any means. Through the years since the entire situation occurred, I've never seen one reasonable suggestion as to what should have happened with the money anyways (aside from throwing it away in a stupid raffle.)

[Sonomaa]

There are many truths to what happened with otherwiki and many lies that have been spread about it. A lot of people forget the facts of what happened and listen to the misdirections and the flat out bald face lies in regards to it.

The fact of the matter is, and has been proven by multiple people on these forums, is that the donations were taken to float the wiki, this was never disputed. However the numbers do not add up. Even with paying for overage bandwith, the figures given did not match the prices, not one little bit. The figures also didnt fit the emails that were posted which contained a myriad of contradictions and deceptions.

After all of this, if there had been an actual acknowledgment officially that the deception had been planned from the start (which all emails easily pointed to it having been) and the a proper apology made for deceiving the community, people would have moved past it a lot faster.

BGs involvement with the otherwiki donations were simply that we put up notices and threads on our forums championing the cause. Wanting specifically to keep the wiki just like we were, strong and independent, able to support itself and keep its course while it grew and the game matured. However after we put a lot of our support into it we were for better or worse stabbed in the back. It wasnt that we were given the option to help the wiki out ourselves to keep it independent. We were given a line that 9000 dollars isnt enough for blah blah blah and we are selling it for a massive amount of money split between a few people.

Now I dont know about you, but if I donate to a cause, say the red cross or like the speedgamers, for a specific and direct purpose, I expect my money to provide for that purpose. If the donations arent enough, I expect a proper heads up before everything happens, I do not expect the donated material to be sold at a massive profit and information attempted to be swept under the table as to why it had to happen. I also dont appreciate my intelligence being insulted by a fed line of "oh it wasnt enough, it cost 2 grand a month to support a server." Especially when I am part of a group that runs a server and knows costs and bandwith charges.

If youre going to fuck me, you know, I accept that. If you are going to lie about fucking me, I dont take very kindly to that. BGWiki was made, not because we were 100% sure it would actually prosper, but because we knew we could make a wiki to compete. We could have taken the entire otherwiki database, it was offered to us, we could have copy pastaed every single bit of information that had been taken from our forums directly and not credited and posted it on our forums. Hell I remember several articles and images that were stolen directly from us.

We could have done a lot of things, but we didnt. Should we have? I have no idea and I dont care to speculate on what would have happened if we used what resources we had at the time. I do know for a fact that bgwiki was sabotaged on multiple occasions by person who were in fact known in the community. Things done willingly to make us have to increase security to a point where the people who wanted to do work couldnt because everything was so messed up.

Ive rambled on a lot here, but let me make some points clear. I do use otherwiki, because yes it is filled out already. Things are done on our wiki, sometimes they appear very quickly, as Septimus is VERY hardcore about doing it. Could it be made to compete? Yes it could, are we able to put the resources behind it to do that? Honestly no. BG is made up of a lot of XI users but a lot of people who play other games too, as Ive said before, we are a bit of a melting pot. If that melting pot consisted primarily of meth and speed.

BG wasnt aware that otherwiki had such devious plans until Taj blew it all wide open. And Im glad he did honestly, I dont like that things Ive supported are cheating me. Otherwiki continued on and continued strong, being able to weather the storm, however I know for a fact that they weathered it because users were either too stupid to realize they had been played like a fiddle or too ignorant to question the lies thrown in their faces.

Ganiman has made strides to help attempt to breach the trust that was severed when all of this happened, and while I havent been very accepting of some of it, he did offer us some questions to pose to the FFXIV team at E3. Whether we get credit for those questions remains to be seen. Whether BG, who has contributed a simply astounding amount of information to otherwiki (and you are stupid you dont believe that), will ever get proper credit for doing it remains to be seen.

I feel no guilt in what happened, we did nothing wrong except attempt to support what we thought could remain an independent community resource. It didnt, but I dont see that as us failing, I see that as advantage being taken of us.

Do I think we should put the past behind us? I dont see why we cant, but if you ask me to trust the people at otherwiki, you have another thing coming.

BG as a linkshell has already spoke with our good friend Pikko and she asked us to support their wiki for 14, so we will be. I dont think we will do a BGwiki for 14, but that could change if we get enough support from the community. I would like to thank some of the people who worked very hard on BGwiki for its time. Septimus, Ryphen, Ringthree, and BRP. (yes, that is the reason BRP has been able to get away with being such a douchebag for so long, he was protected).

Otherwiki exists, they have more information than our wiki does, my smirk in the entire matter is that they took the information mostly from us. We get 5.5k people on patch day, we get a lot of dats quickly (though Tummie from alla has beaten us on some patches recently). We find out a good portion of the information, and sometimes I go looking and see direct copypasta from our forums. But I dont get mad, I dont get even, I could do all of that, but I prefer just to sit back and let our forums and our community speak for themselves.

[Priran]

I'd accuse all of the people who are so adamantly opposed to the wiki of jumping blindly and the cool-kid Taj mob mentality bandwagon before stepping back and actually taking a look at the situation for what it was.

And I'd accuse all the people saying "move on let it go omg it's been so long move on" of being obnoxious pretentious tryhards.

Otherwiki fucked over an entire community and you're telling us we should just take it because in the few years since, no alternatives have caught on to the same degree Otherwiki did. Fuck that, retarded faux "pragmatism" arguments like this shit are why we'll still be offshore drilling for years to come.

[Mojo]

Define "Fucked over an entire community." They may or may not have pocketed the remainder of a donation and they sold the site to wikia. WOE IS THE FFXI COMMUNITY! I'd say insisting that a community remains polarized over ancient petty shit is more damaging than that ever was.

Again, please make a suggestion as to what you would have done, perhaps you'll finally understand how unreasonable doing the "right" thing would have been.

Self righteous arguments like this shit are why we'll still be commando raiding flotillas for years to come.

[ringthree]

And I'd accuse all the people saying "move on let it go omg it's been so long move on" of being obnoxious pretentious tryhards.

Otherwiki fucked over an entire community and you're telling us we should just take it because in the few years since, no alternatives have caught on to the same degree Otherwiki did. Fuck that, retarded faux "pragmatism" arguments like this shit are why we'll still be offshore drilling for years to come.

You are holding a torch for people that have already moved on.

From Hitler to offshore oil drilling... where will the next bad analogy lead us?

BTW, good post Sonomaa. There are so few people that actually knew what really happened, it is good to have a more full explanation.

[Priran]

Define "Fucked over an entire community."

Go fuck yourself with this "define is" shit.

P.S.

Self righteous arguments like this shit are why we'll still be commando raiding flotillas for years to come.

This makes no sense, for several reasons. First, what? Second, I don't think encouraging a grudge is "self-righteous". Third, I'm pretty sure flaunting your higher tolerance for getting hustled is.

P.S.S. Shut up Ringthree, you are tryhard defined.

[Mojo]

Fuck all ya'll who wanna point out how childish this jihad really is.