Wiki Update Thread, Help wanted Apply within...

[jaryk]

To Mojo, seriously shut the fuck up, you have no clue what you're talking about and have no perspective. My fuck I thought you might have been a new user with the idiocy you're spouting off.

Secondly, my analogy is pretty spot on and pretty fucking fantastic if I do say so myself (I did say so myself), so fuck yourselves.

My issue and my bitterness as Sonomaa has done a fantastic job about pointing out is about 99.8% of Otherwiki's information came from here, came from people who frequented these forums. They basically took information that they didn't gather, made no effort to gather, then stole thousands of dollars from the same people that they stole the info from and now everybody wants to pretend like it's ok.

For everyone arguing that this was not a big deal, then I expect you each to send me a couple of grand, I'll then fuck your mothers or kick you in the nuts, your choice and then we can talk about how right you are. If you weren't around when this happened, didn't donate, or don't understand what happened (ie Mojo), please shut the fuck up.

The stupidity of some of you just shocks and amazes the fuck out of me. It makes me wonder if I really should just come door to door and steal money from you while burning down your house so a few years later you can thank me for it.

(Also inb4 bad analogies and whining and everything else, you can all suck my nuts).

[Spider-Dan]

I've always kind of wondered about the boycott over the wiki. It seems to me that the guy everyone is pissed about isn't involved in it anymore so the boycott is misdirected.

A significant detail is none of the people whining about it EVER had even donated a dime, yet appeared to be greatly concerned with protecting the donations of people who were perfectly happy with the outcome. Yet another reason why this jihad was oh-so-compelling.

And any account of the FFXIwiki debacle that fails to mention exactly how BG came into the knowledge of the "money shenanigans" (to say nothing of the other actions by the Whistleblower Of Justice that immediately followed this event) is whitewashing the story just a tad.

[jaryk]

A significant detail is none of the people whining about it EVER had even donated a dime, yet appeared to be greatly concerned with protecting the donations of people who were perfectly happy with the outcome. Yet another reason why this jihad was oh-so-compelling.

And any account of the FFXIwiki debacle that fails to mention exactly how BG came into the knowledge of the "money shenanigans" (to say nothing of the other actions by the Whistleblower Of Justice that immediately followed this event) is whitewashing the story just a tad.

Really? I've never met a person who donated who was "perfectly happy" with the outcome, I talked to people who got over it, who accepted it, but never a person who was "perfectly happy" so I'm going to have to say you're full of shit and over exaggerating.

As far as to how the information was gleaned, yes it was from Taj, yes it was unscrupulous, who the fuck cares? Are we supposed to feel guilty that it was through dishonest means that information was given?

[Ashira]

I don't support how it was found out, nor do I support the actions they did following to sabotage the wikia either. I mean, sure, it was amusing, but I'm more than usually aware of the steps people begin to take once they take one out of bounds step.

But it was exposed, do we ignore it? If I read someone's diary and find out they're a serial killer - no wait, that they're Taliban!!! -, do I not notify Homeland Security? (I dunno, figured I'd continue with the overblown analogies, they're fun.)

And I don't consider reading the email correspondence myself as hearsay, Mojo. Considering... I read the email correspondence myself. But that was also 2 computers ago, 3 yrs ago, and I don't remember the guy's name.

[Spider-Dan]

Really? I've never met a person who donated who was "perfectly happy" with the outcome, I talked to people who got over it, who accepted it, but never a person who was "perfectly happy" so I'm going to have to say you're full of shit and over exaggerating.

One more time for emphasis:

A significant detail is none of the people whining about it EVER had even donated a dime

And while I know the temptation to play Let's Hindsight Revisionism! is great, I'm pretty sure that this particular annoying detail (i.e. lack of skin in the game by the whiners) was mentioned SEVERAL TIMES during the original debacle and the only response was "so what, it doesn't matter, JUSTICE IS JUSTICE".

As far as to how the information was gleaned, yes it was from Taj, yes it was unscrupulous, who the fuck cares? Are we supposed to feel guilty that it was through dishonest means that information was given?

So let me see if I understand you correctly:

- FFXIWiki takes donations to keep site up and running
- Undisclosed Details
- Site remains up and running

This is unconscionable and must be rectified, because Details Totally Matter. HOWEVER:

- People want to know the Undisclosed Details
- A Miracle Occurs
- Taj provides e-mail from private accounts that prove Shenanigans

End justifies the means, yo! No one gives a sh*t about irrelevant details of how the job got done... all that matters is that it got done.

Yep, this argument is just as shallow and hypocritical now as it was then.

[Crab_Cake]

It'd be nice if Wiki sourced their shit. Forum posts and etc

Haste, AGI, CHR, and Y/G/K (Gekko example) have at least one source referenced.

For stuff without sources, you can add them if you know where it came from.

Also some places do have them in discussion pages(rather than the main page).

Of course stuff like this still exists on the wiki so...

[Norellicus]

I think you missed the part where those "undisclosed details" involved lying to our faces.

They finished the donation drive, thanked everyone for their support, carried out the raffle, and claimed all was well. Then, mere DAYS later, they say "we're joining wikia!" and we're like "o...k?"; suddenly the money they took wasn't sufficient and they had to act fast. It was puzzling, but to the vast majority of us who didn't know better, seemed legitimate.

But people in the industry knew better, and the numbers weren't adding up. Regardless of the right/wrong involved in uncovering the actual truth, the truth still remains that we were deceived. We gave of the kindness of our hearts (and yes, I donated, before you go harping on the fact that people are trying to be BG coolcats for being anti-wiki), and lied about its uses.

Even if they couldn't give it back, there are a hundred other ways they could have put that money to a good cause (like perhaps sending it over to wikipedia itself!), not lining their own pockets with it.

Edit: Full disclosure, I still use wiki today. I would use another resource if one came anywhere close to the same level of information availability, but they don't, and I'm not so prideful as to shoot myself in the foot just because I'm a little bitter about a poorly handled situation three years ago.

[Ashira]

Haste, AGI, CHR, and Y/G/K (Gekko example) have at least one source referenced.

For stuff without sources, you can add them if you know where it came from.

Also some places do have them in discussion pages(rather than the main page).

Of course stuff like this still exists on the wiki so...

Someone copied my notes on soloing a Sandy mission right out of my blog. I haven't looked at the page in like, a year and some, but last time I had checked they didn't reference me.

[Aksannyi]

You act as though it never happened anywhere before this.

I'm not saying it's right, but seriously, how much shit since the dawn of time has been used without proper credit given?

[Araius]

I wonder if anyone clicked on this thread thinking it would be anything BUT otherwiki bitching

So...as far as the BGwiki for 14 goes, what's the site, if it exists? And is Eorzeapedia run by the otherwiki folks? Frankly, as I was not directly affected by what they did, I've used and contributed to otherwiki a bunch. With all it's faults, its still the most complete source of information (and misinformation) that I've seen. But that doesn't mean I would continue supporting them if there was a viable alternative. I would imagine most of the people who know the story would say the same.

[ringthree]

Someone copied my notes on soloing a Sandy mission right out of my blog. I haven't looked at the page in like, a year and some, but last time I had checked they didn't reference me.

You know you could add the credit. Or you can remove the information and give an explanation on the discussion page.

This issue is pretty much completely unrelated to the overall issue of the otherwiki. It is a wiki, the people that run it can not police it the whole time.

[Priran]

It is a wiki, the people that run it can not police it the whole time.

Except that isn't what they did. For the longest time they instructed people not to cite their sources and removed any citations because "SE owns the game so SE is the source" or whatever that fucktarded rationale they came up with was.

[Spider-Dan]

I think you missed the part where those "undisclosed details" involved lying to our faces.

Which is, apparently, far worse than if they were going around hacking accounts. Because that barely merits anything more than "yeah, but so what?"

Regardless of the right/wrong involved in uncovering the actual truth, the truth still remains that we were deceived.

The truth also remains that the actual goal (wiki remains running) was accomplished.

We gave of the kindness of our hearts (and yes, I donated, before you go harping on the fact that people are trying to be BG coolcats for being anti-wiki), and lied about its uses.

Even if they couldn't give it back, there are a hundred other ways they could have put that money to a good cause (like perhaps sending it over to wikipedia itself!), not lining their own pockets with it.

Funny, because it seems that at the time, you were busy bitching that they were using donation money to pay for shirts and mousepads that they promised donators. That's right: complaining that they were meeting their stated obligations to the donors.

Seriously, you just can't make this sh*t up. Even I had forgotten the utter depth of the inanity of the complaints at the time.

[Norellicus]

How long did it take you to find that?

And we're the obsessive ones here, lol

[Cutriss]

How many of you still "fighting the good fight" over FFXIclopedia also use Facebook?

Just wondering if your high horses travel.

[shepardG]

Wow...


I thought about this all day as I watched this unfold and sent Sonomaa a PM, and asked what was up. I don't know all the details, i won't pretend too.

What I will say was I started this thread because I wanted to have a place that was clean and easy to use to learn about the new gear as it was discovered, etc. This update had a crap ton of gear, as well as 2 new end game-ish events.
I will help update either, just so long as the information is dispersed.

I'm new to the whole "wiki" thing, and real new to the whole "Otherwiki" thing. Didn't want to poor salt in old wounds, just wanted to help out the community.

I have a personal belief that the internet is the greatest fucking thing we will see created in our life time. It's on par with spoken/written language, and has laid the ground work for the way we as a species will progress in our decision making, as well as our sociological ideals. It's that fucking serious. We forget or we remember, but the internet never does. It lacks only the key to make the knowledge useful and that's the ability to make decisions.

Things like this situation are going to come up, because mankind is flawed, but we do ourselves injustice if we allow another's thoughtless/selfish act to adversely effect how we progress in obtaining our information, be it for a video game like FFXI or for the history of our species itself.

The best and most important counter to the act's that have spurned such reaction have already been taken, and are being taken, and that is to record, document, make known, that which was wrong, so that history doesn't repeat itself.

[Spider-Dan]

How long did it take you to find that?

And we're the obsessive ones here, lol

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3rd result, chief.

You know, on the internet, when you say things it's pretty easy to be held accountable for them.

[Bockage]

I wouldn't bother asking for help with any wiki here. The vast majority of users here don't seem at all interested in helping out with that.

[Jesifromgaruda]

Yawn.

[Khamsin]

You are holding a torch for people that have already moved on.

Who has moved on? You? Good for you. But most of us haven't forgotten it. Many people, some of whom have posted in this thread, haven't forgiven what happened and, as such, their trust of otherwiki is tainted.

Yes, it's in the past, but there's no reason for anyone to accept or forgive it. Acceptance isn't necessary, and frankly, isn't warranted. We're not sitting here in a dark corner, brooding, planning our revenge and raising our fist to curse them every night before bed. They're not constantly in the backs of our minds making it hard for us to get on with our lives. It's not an issue of "moving on", it's an issue of knowing what they're capable of, what they've done, and it having an effect on our personal judgments about them as a result.

It's like Bear-Stearns coming back and saying "Hay guyz, wanna invest with us again?" If we choose not to because of what happened before, is it because we were obsessed and brooding about it and have deep-seated anger that we just need to get over, or is it because we just simply don't trust them?