Wiki Update Thread, Help wanted Apply within...

[Toxictaru]

Someone said on page one that the people involved in the sale of otherwiki to wikia earned their share for the hard work they put in to the wiki. While its true that someone like Gahoo has done quite a bit, the wiki didn't explode until the adventuring fellow guide. It was -then- that everyone showed up, and that was when the bulk of the raw material showed up. The whole idea behind a wiki in general is that its something that EVERYONE works on, not just one or two or three people.

To suggest it was solely their hard work to profit from was a major problem when this whole thing happened 3 years ago. To suggest that it was their hard work would mean I should get a ton of praise for my work on the BGwiki when we first started it (I did a lot of template work and random other things in getting the thing up and running). I don't, nor do I expect it, as I did some stuff in the background.

I think ultimately most people agreed that it wasn't the sale that pissed people off, it was the shadiness behind our donations that suddenly couldn't fully be accounted for was the problem.

For the record, I did stay away from otherwiki for 5-6 months, but ultimately found myself going back there from time to time. Hell, even being one of a short list of people who have been banned from there, I managed to get all of my privileges back I don't hate them, I just wish that they'd have been more upfront about it at the time. But again, that was years ago, and like it or not, otherwiki is the primary source. My only hope for the community as a whole is that when the time comes to start really compiling information for FF14, we have something a little less chaotic.

[Ashira]

I wouldn't bother asking for help with any wiki here. The vast majority of users here don't seem at all interested in helping out with that.

....

[aduidarnenye]

My unimportant opinion on it is mostly that I didn't care when the whole the happened and I still don't care years later. I apologise if that seems cold, heartless, or uninformed.

I have looked at the BG wiki but couldn't find any information that I wanted to, so stopped looking at it. At this point the response seems to be "Well, update it then" but I have no interest nor time to update a wiki seriously (any wiki). The odd edit, okay, but not the amount of time the BG wiki requires.

I don't understand all the hoopla around citing references for a video game on a wiki. It's not as if you'd have made money off the information and it was stolen to the point you could no longer make money (unless you wanted to do one of those gil-making guide PDFs that RMT used to sell years ago). For the most part, if a reference is there I either ignore it, skip across it, mentally block it out, or don't even know the people it's referencing. I just assume that people on BG probably came up with a lot of the stuff, and if not them, people on BG learnt it from the JPs.


P.S. I like the list, I always like nice neat lists of stuff like this. Do the body pieces so I can like that too!

[Ashira]

and if not them, people on BG learnt it from the JPs.

Ok, time warp just kicked in again and went back another 3 yrs, we're now plop in the middle of 6 yrs ago.

[aduidarnenye]

Ok, time warp just kicked in again and went back another 3 yrs, we're now plop in the middle of 6 yrs ago.

Yeah, I've been assuming this for a long while! I'm old, it takes a long time for my brain to change gears or directions. I sometimes even forget the Big Kills list is gone.

[Ashira]

Since this thread is now based on drama from 6 yrs ago, I'm trying to think of drama from 6 yrs ago.

Like, omg, that LS held Fafnir for 5 HOURS just to move the pop time, those bastards!

[Norellicus]

Lancelot uses poshack lollllllllllllllllllllll

[Cantih]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/signa...pic27325_1.gif

[Spira]

Its been such a long time for crying out loud.

Misuse of donation funds and deceiving the donors is unethical, but it happens all the time. I'm not saying its right, but you'll have to accept that such things happen. Besides, its only a few thousand dollars.. peanuts really, compared to the amount of money people probably spent buying gil and fucking up the enjoyability of the game for other people. Or misappropropriation of church funds, or more heinous crimes.

If you were one of those who donated I guess you have a right to feel cheated, but there are many other things out there we constantly (and continually) get cheated about that we don't even realize.
Does knowing it make it any better? Not really. It doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. And you still cannot deny the fact that the wiki they started became the birthing point of a centralized FFXI information database.

You can go on about the BS history about Otherwiki, but the fact of the matter is that it isn't relevant to whether it needs the contribution of relevant new information. It happens to still be the main wiki for FFXI after the various efforts to create new wikis, and possibly nothing will ever change that at this point.

So if you're looking to contribute to the FFXI community, that would really be the good place. Doing it over here in BG is fine, but honestly, in all likelihood it will get reproduced there because its just a much more convenient and organized place to display information.

As for the point about crediting and sources, its partially valid in the sense that anyone who edits a wiki should feel the need to consult the IP owner before reproducing it anywhere. Or even if they do not, cite it in the footnotes, which is being done most of the time.

This isn't to say its expected. A wiki isn't an academic paper, nor is it ever owned by any single entity - which is the entire point of the wiki really. Anyone can add, and remove information from it. People who get the feeling that a wiki is stealing their credit on anything is mistaken about its purpose.

Also, this is the internet and a rather public forum. If you put out exclusive information here, its almost as good as saying you've given up your right to it. Its kinda impossible to track where your info gets reproduced too. Pragmatically speaking, permission and crediting is just a formality.

[ringthree]

Who has moved on? You? Good for you. But most of us haven't forgotten it. Many people, some of whom have posted in this thread, haven't forgiven what happened and, as such, their trust of otherwiki is tainted.

Yes, it's in the past, but there's no reason for anyone to accept or forgive it. Acceptance isn't necessary, and frankly, isn't warranted. We're not sitting here in a dark corner, brooding, planning our revenge and raising our fist to curse them every night before bed. They're not constantly in the backs of our minds making it hard for us to get on with our lives. It's not an issue of "moving on", it's an issue of knowing what they're capable of, what they've done, and it having an effect on our personal judgments about them as a result.

It's like Bear-Stearns coming back and saying "Hay guyz, wanna invest with us again?" If we choose not to because of what happened before, is it because we were obsessed and brooding about it and have deep-seated anger that we just need to get over, or is it because we just simply don't trust them?

Moving on is not the same as accepting or forgiving. I didn't say that anyone accepted or forgave. I only stated that it should be a dead issue. You are wrong though, some people are still brooding in that dark corner, that much is obvious. You don't get the level of vitriol you see in this thread from some people if they weren't doing just that.

I would suggest that you stop demonizing the other side in this discussion. The fact that I think it is time to move on does not mean in anyway that I think that the actions taken by some of the people that run the otherwiki were appropriate. I was (and still am) disappointed in their actions at that time. The only difference is that I did (and still do) think that some people took the issue way too far. We are all on the same side of the issue. We are just reacting to various different degrees.

[rahskala]

I think the dealings of certain administrators may have been a little shady, but it's not like they even own the site anymore. Wikia owns it now. And said individuals aren't responsible for even a fraction of the content on the wiki anymore, so what does it matter to me? I use/edit otherwiki because I find it useful and I don't mind contributing my own knowledge.

All the content on otherwiki that I've contributed -- and that everyone else has -- is CC-BY-SA licensed. If anyone cared strongly enough about the issue, they could fork otherwiki and still have the fruits of everyone's labor without the people involved. That hasn't happened.

It's like if Hitler owned a shoe factory and asked for people to donate their children to perform labor and then he sold the company to Stalin in exchange for a truckload of foie gras after sacrificing the children in Satan's glorious name. Analogies are fun!

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Do we need to sign up here/ask for regular editing or do we just register like normal wikis on the site?

[jaryk]

Moving on is not the same as accepting or forgiving. I didn't say that anyone accepted or forgave. I only stated that it should be a dead issue. You are wrong though, some people are still brooding in that dark corner, that much is obvious. You don't get the level of vitriol you see in this thread from some people if they weren't doing just that.

I would suggest that you stop demonizing the other side in this discussion. The fact that I think it is time to move on does not mean in anyway that I think that the actions taken by some of the people that run the otherwiki were appropriate. I was (and still am) disappointed in their actions at that time. The only difference is that I did (and still do) think that some people took the issue way too far. We are all on the same side of the issue. We are just reacting to various different degrees.

Taking the issue too far would be burning down their houses and killing their families, all we're doing is ranting on the interwebz. I will remain indignant as fuck towards people who steal, I'm sorry that's a major sticking point for me and it does and did I think to an extent make it harder for independently owned websites to ask for donations. People do feel burned to an extent. I've had a hard time donating to other shit since then because I'm never quite sure if I'm donating to actually help maintain something, or allowing someone to go buy hookers and blow without even making a video.

[Spider-Dan]

Just to clear up for the late arrivals:

In context of this thread, "stealing money" = "suboptimal bulk purchase deal on swag promised to donators"

Because "stealing money" normally means something totally different.

[Ashira]

As I recall, they didn't have the money to buy their damn swag and had to shop around a second time for someone else cheaper to print shit in their basement or some shit because they used their money for other shit for which it wasn't intended.

[jaryk]

Just to clear up for the late arrivals:

In context of this thread, "stealing money" = "suboptimal bulk purchase deal on swag promised to donators"

Because "stealing money" normally means something totally different.

Just to clear up because you have no idea what you're talking about
"stealing money"=taking money for goods and services and not providing them, but instead using the money at your own discretion, possibly for hookers and coke (though sadly not filming them).

You're also a very bad troll.... if you're going to troll at least understand context. Which you clearly do not and it makes me really sad.

[Spider-Dan]

As I recall, they didn't have the money to buy their damn swag and had to shop around a second time for someone else cheaper to print shit in their basement or some shit because they used their money for other shit for which it wasn't intended.

Then you recall wrong.

They took in $9400 in donations, $4700 went to hosting/servers, $1900 went to swag, $500 to shipping for said swag. The leftover money (because the transfer to Wikia was inked), $2300, went to raffled WotG copies, not into their pockets. The end result of the entire incident was that people were bitching at them for paying two grand for however many mousepads and shirts when "dude I totally could have gotten those made for half that!"

i.e. pure, unadulterated monday morning quarterbacking

[Ashira]

Then you recall wrong.

They took in $9400 in donations, $4700 went to hosting/servers, $1900 went to swag, $500 to shipping for said swag. The leftover money (because the transfer to Wikia was inked), $2300, went to raffled WotG copies, not into their pockets. The end result of the entire incident was that people were bitching at them for paying two grand for however many mousepads and shirts when "dude I totally could have gotten those made for half that!"

i.e. pure, unadulterated monday morning quarterbacking

You're right, I did recall wrong. They *supposedly* shopped around and found these 'deals,' which is how they 'accounted' for their funds.

[shepardG]

Do we need to sign up here/ask for regular editing or do we just register like normal wikis on the site?

Nah, My reason was after sitting around for an hour or so, thought i'd do something productive with my time, so i made this thread after viewing the daunting task, to get people to start building the frame work of what would end up being the wiki page dedicated to the update on monday.

It was nothing more than a place were the Organization of the work myself and others were doing, could be well.... organized /shrug.

I took head, someone else took feet, etc. etc. Random dude working on daggers needed to know how to link the light.gif into his work so it showed up (I actually didn't know how to do this, hell i still don't)

But....I had no idea about the history, and in sense I kicked the White phosphorous and it started smoking again. Thread is sorta pointless now.

....

Well maybe not, it is educating others, hell it educated me, and that's saying something I guess.

[Spider-Dan]

You're right, I did recall wrong. They *supposedly* shopped around and found these 'deals,' which is how they 'accounted' for their funds.

Like I just said:

"suboptimal bulk purchase deal on swag promised to donators" = "stealing money"