Walk of Echoes

[Xera]

Context. If you're working a single weapon then real emp is an option. I disagree that only one person benefits from having an emp weapon in your LS. Strongly disagree. If you aren't willing to help someone complete a weapon without benefit for yourself then you're just as greedy as the leech you complain about.

Yes I am Greedy because I choose to help someone I know rather than some random. Out.

How do you stretch 30 mins into 3 hours? It doesn't matter if it's 6 people or 36 people, the time it takes to clear is all you or anyone else in the run invested. You might as well go ahead and stretch out the leech's 'man hours' for having to lot against entire groups of people. No idea why people want to make it sound like it's easy to stroll into another groups WoE runs and walk out with most of the coin and loot.

Ignorance isn't a valid defense.

How else do you fit 7 members in a group?

Word games are a waste of time, many times we don't have an alliance due to the sac not needing to be in alliance.

Again, context. The post was a response to the post above mine. You had 7 people(I believe that qualifies as an alliance) and were trying to complete one weapon. These weapons are incredibly easy to come by in their current stage. Full emps take a while longer, but are easily worth it. I think my shell has 4-5 weapons we churned out in a bit over a month of WoE. Some of them nearly on par with relic performance at a fraction of the time spent to complete. Perspective for your 'man hours'.

I think it's obvious you don't know a thing about time invested here's a link with the basics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-hour .

Anyway, this is pointless. If you can make a case to leeches justifying their existence I'll hear you out, otherwise it's just arguing efficiency to someone who is basing all their points off eye balled assumptions and ignorance.

[firefeng]

If you can make a case to leeches justifying their existence I'll hear you out...

A better question is why anyone should have to justify their presence to you. I can't concoct an end-all argument that justifies the existence of every last hanger-on that dares impinge upon your right to privately enjoy a public event, but I can make quite a few detailing the irrelevance of your opinion on the matter, if you'd like.

[ronin sparthos]

Nope. That would destroys the original idea of WoE: making it Campaign-like.

A possible fix IMHO would be to implement both of the following:
1. Make the Conflux Mega Boss stays claimed to the party/alliance who 1st claimed it. No outsiders can hit it.
2. Make the "bonus" for defeating the Mega Boss substantial for everyone in the party/alliance that defeated it.
Normal mobs in zone still have current rules, so outsiders can still play with them.
But the fix proposed above would make outsiders impossible to get inthe 5 highest ranks for loot if an alliance is in zone defeating Mega Boss.
On other hand, in the case of a simple PT killing normal mobs only, then see another PT entering the same zone to kill normal mobs only, both PTs will share the currently implemented ranking system.

No need to change anything else. Thoughts ?

EDIT: having SE read this is another story tough...

It's simple. So simple you'd wonder why SE wasn't smart enough to think about it.

Each monster in chamber drops a cruor/ichor style number of points. Said points can be used to purchase coins/purses from an npc located in the main lobby.

Small monsters drop a low amount of points and clearing the chamber rewards with a large number of points.

There. Every fucking gripe about WoE is solved. The leeches can work with you for points and linkshells/lowmans wont feel slighted when someone comes inside.

Also, drop the recharge on confluxes to 15mins for confluxes 1-3.

[Dooom]

It's simple. So simple you'd wonder why SE wasn't smart enough to think about it.

Each monster in chamber drops a cruor/ichor style number of points. Said points can be used to purchase coins/purses from an npc located in the main lobby.

Small monsters drop a low amount of points and clearing the chamber rewards with a large number of points.

There. Every fucking gripe about WoE is solved. The leeches can work with you for points and linkshells/lowmans wont feel slighted when someone comes inside.

Also, drop the recharge on confluxes to 15mins for confluxes 1-3.

Thissssssssssssss so much. WoE seems so well suited to an Ichor style system that I'm shocked SE didn't put it in from the start.

Furthermore, I hope that if we QQ enough then fixes will be made.

A better question is why anyone should have to justify their presence to you. I can't concoct an end-all argument that justifies the existence of every last hanger-on that dares impinge upon your right to privately enjoy a public event, but I can make quite a few detailing the irrelevance of your opinion on the matter, if you'd like.

They are free to take part of course, but a soloer could not clear a conflux. If a soloer tags along with your LS/group run which can clear the chamber without help, and gets extra rewards as a result of your efforts (personal box or main pool) at the expense of your group not getting those rewards, then they've leeched. Simple as that.

[chazzyphizzle]

that really would fix alot of problems, it would also help alleviate some bullshit if coins were tradable, but that'll never happen either.

[Xera]

A better question is why anyone should have to justify their presence to you. I can't concoct an end-all argument that justifies the existence of every last hanger-on that dares impinge upon your right to privately enjoy a public event, but I can make quite a few detailing the irrelevance of your opinion on the matter, if you'd like.

Say someone comes in, solos mobs in the corner. I don't care if they rank number 1, and any coins they get from their solo I don't have my group touch. I respect that they earned those coins, I only expect the same in return.

It just baffles me, I have no clue how people can attempt to justify their actions (in lotting the things they definitely didn't produce.). I just don't understand people's lack of respect/entire thought process on their actions.

And yes a points/reward system would be awesome.

[Aemora]

Perhaps SE should just delete this version of Walk of Echoes, and lock it until we get to 99, then put in some good event that requires groups of people working together to achieve the same goal and not make it based on the evaluation similar to campaign, but realistically scale it to the amount of people that enter, and attribute the reward thusly, so the hardcore hardcorers can do the hardcore shit and get the very best stuff, and the smaller groups can do average stuff and get decentish drops, yet make these Magian coins a currency similarly to Alexandrites, ABCs and Dyna coins that drop randomly off of any mob killed. Pouches from the bosses that too are scaled correctly like how they said Einherjar would be, but fairly this time.

If they can scale Abyssea to party size, they can scale an end-game event too.

Edit: Actually, here's a better idea... There's like 16 areas in Walk of Echoes, why not have each group have to each start at the same point, and work their way through each level, similar to Salvage, and scale the difficulty as you go. Each clear gets you 10 minutes of additional time, so that the bigger groups can sweep through each area easily, being able to reap the rewards from the higher levels, and the smaller groups be able to clear the first few levels, perhaps some solo play options for the first 1-3 levels, with a mini boss each stage. Last level can be to fight Atomos himself, that'd be pwn <.<

[Babu]

Yes I am Greedy because I choose to help someone I know rather than some random. Out.

No, you're greedy because you find fault with helping someone out unless there is something in it for you. Grow up.

Word games are a waste of time, many times we don't have an alliance due to the sac not needing to be in alliance.

Regardless, I was responding directly to your post. If you want to generalize that's fine, but don't try to apply your generalizations to my response to your post when you were specific about the numbers you took and and the number of weapons you're trying to complete.

I think it's obvious you don't know a thing about time invested here's a link with the basics

I'm sure it's obvious that you're missing the point. The time you invest in WoE with your group, however large they are, doesn't even come close to the time you would spend in dynamis getting people relics. The weapons are comparable, but the man hours are not even close. Forgive me because I can't feel sorry for you because you might have to run a 30 minute event a few more times to get coins.

[Xera]

No, you're greedy because you find fault with helping someone out unless there is something in it for you. Grow up.

Yes, us LS leaders are oh so selfish for looking out for our shell members.

I'm sure it's obvious that you're missing the point. The time you invest in WoE with your group, however large they are, doesn't even come close to the time you would spend in dynamis getting people relics. The weapons are comparable, but the man hours are not even close. Forgive me because I can't feel sorry for you because you might have to run a 30 minute event a few more times to get coins.

Not relevant, how good something doesn't determine whats leeching and whats not. Troll better.

[Colenzo]

Has anybody noticed themselves being able to rank up from doing WoE? I just did campaign for like the first time in a long time last night and I never fuck around in the past unless im doing WoE and I ranked up >_>.

[Babu]

Yes, us LS leaders are oh so selfish for looking out for our shell members.



Not relevant, how good something doesn't determine whats leeching and whats not. Troll better.

If it's not worth your time unless there is some benefit to you then you're helping yourself. If you're there to help someone else regardless of time then you don't moan over the extra few runs it might take to get their coins. It is a minor annoyance at worst.

Nowhere in that paragraph did I try to draw a relation between the value of the weapon and what does or doesn't constitute leeching. All I did was point out how insignificant a few extra hours(if that) of running WoE is in comparison to a comparable weapon like relic. If you don't like how WoE works then you can do one of 3 things: Go to abyssea and farm for a real emp weapon where no one else gets your drops, suck it up and get it done, or cry more.

[zagex]

If you're there to help someone else regardless of time then you don't moan over the extra few runs it might take to get their coins. It is a minor annoyance at worst.

It's one kind of annoyance if the personal/overall chests aren't giving the right coins. There's nothing that can be done to prevent what drops occur. This is a minor annoyance, such as 3 pouches of ruin across all 5 personal chests.

It's a completely different if the correct coins do drop, but someone comes in and steals it. Something could have been done to prevent this. If that asshat hadn't joined, we would all be happy. Instead, we're not happy.

[zagex]

it would also help alleviate some bullshit if coins were tradable, but that'll never happen either.

If there was an option: add treasure chest to loot pool, that would help immensely. That way people will still have to do the event, not browse bazaars for this.

[Xera]

If it's not worth your time unless there is some benefit to you then you're helping yourself.

Uh what? There's so many things shell leaders do for their people for no gain.

If you're there to help someone else regardless of time then you don't moan over the extra few runs it might take to get their coins. It is a minor annoyance at worst.Nowhere in that paragraph did I try to draw a relation between the value of the weapon and what does or doesn't constitute leeching. All I did was point out how insignificant a few extra hours(if that) of running WoE is in comparison to a comparable weapon like relic. If you don't like how WoE works then you can do one of 3 things: Go to abyssea and farm for a real emp weapon where no one else gets your drops, suck it up and get it done, or cry more.

Yes, losing half the coins is simply a few extra hours.

Out of curiosity are you one of those people whom leech runs?

[zagex]

I assume he has to be, otherwise he wouldn't be so adamant about defending leechers

[Tribe]

Trying #2 with 4, Pld Drg Rdm and Smn for pulls, I cant carby pull these, idk if anyone else has how and if it worked. And how do people deal with the bosses adds? The ones spawned from his TP move I mean

[Aihree]

In all of the runs I've done in #2, the bosses have never spawned adds.

All mobs in there have alliance hate. If someone aggro's or pulls one when in an alliance, that slime hates everyone in the whole alliance. This includes all links. If you're going to carby pull, be sure to be out of party so you can go off somewhere and die and reraise after pld pulls boss off.

[ronin sparthos]

Trying #2 with 4, Pld Drg Rdm and Smn for pulls, I cant carby pull these, idk if anyone else has how and if it worked. And how do people deal with the bosses adds? The ones spawned from his TP move I mean

Morbid Molasses' Cytokenisis does not spawn adds. His Dissolve gets the double dark boost though.

Most people just have a sac agro the MB, die somewhere safe while you grab MM and pull it back. Repeat 4x and you win.

[Tribe]

well he did have a mini grenade slime he spawned off that, I see this on first run. Also I dont see how people are doing this with just Sam/brd/rdm The boss took out our Pld before Para II had even been cast then easily ruined our Drg. I feel like people love to bullshit on here then down-play how hard things are.

[Guitarman]

If your pld/drg are full perle or some shit yeah maybe it could kill them, but before a debuff is even cast? Uh, no. Tell pld to delete his account. 2x monk, rdm can kill bosses fine. I try to bring 5 for speed and since 5 chests are spawned anyways.

They do spawn little black slimes, but i'm not sure how. We never got one, but i did see a jp group get a black slime spawned on them.