Walk of Echoes

[Gokku]

Thanks for the information Gokku, when sac'ing how did you manage it? dia baby slime / die far from camp someone pulls boss? We tried this in crab zone with the 3 bosses and after sac'er died (outside of ally) the other 2 bosses came back for us :/ Do slimes work differently? I know the little ones die when boss dies, what do you do if the boss has no babies out and pops them midfight? diaga & run ? Bit more info on sacing etc would be appreciated, tyvm for the setup & info.

ok the boss baby glitch ive never had happen though the last 2 runs i just did only had 3 bosses instead of 4. break down of how i do it i put rr up on mule dia the baby closest to the south side of the fountain. then run the mule down the N steps hugging the lefr side of the wall and shifting to the right side as i get to the bottom , ive noticed this has like a 60% chance of causing the babys to deagro my mule *dont ask me why*. while im pulling on mule ive boosted up a chi blast on my main to pull off the boss (if monks pulling it off it needs to be at least 2 boosts in due to funky hate) fight / kill / rinse / repeat. a few things to note, like the crabs when killing a boss there is a chance a baby will come check out the spot , in these cases i stun the baby and use the time from stun to do a boss pull on my mule , also you could just stun and die due to when a baby or boss thats moved from its spot is agro'd and deagro'd it returns to its starting position not the mobs death spot. so tribes post isnt 100% correct all mobs in all cons have the "hey guys whats going on over here!" shit they like to do , but having your outside sac agro and die fixes the mobs positions. i can also confirm 100% that dissolve is hate reset and generally results in 1 mage getting face rapped if its done back to back a good dnc stunning dissolve helps alot as a 5th. if anyone wants to know the jobs that place 1st when leeching runs let me know i can post.

[Francisco]

I haven't done WoE much, but I want to know a bit about the etiquette of the areas... I'll sum it up as such:

Would I be a douche if I...

1) ...hang around the area in my down time, and jump in when another group enters, then lot stuff? (Not leech, I actually kill stuff, just uninvited)

2) ...hang around the area in my down time, and jump in when a group enters, pass everything - but try to get a top 5 chest?

3) ...take a group into WoE, and not invite others to the alliance?

4) ...take a group into WoE, and not raise outsiders when they die?

This morning I entered on a JP group. I passed all drops (including the final group chest) on both runs. I did however, try my best for a top 5 chest, and managed to place 3rd out of 14 despite not getting songs, haste or cures. The group didn't say anything to me at all, and their only action was continuously moving the mob away from me after I got bound or ate the knockback+gravity TP move. I know SE designed the zone as a free for all, but was I being a douche by just going in?

[ronin sparthos]

It all comes down to the group you happen to join in on.

Linkshells will usually react in a hostile manner at people joining their runs because of the likelihood that you simply might be an idiot that lots everything or MPK the group.

Usually with time the same people will show up and eventually recognize you even if its just as "that guy who lots glory coins". Some groups will be hostile and try to MPK you but others will just come to realize you're there for one goal and learn to live with you. Ive been MPK'd by small groups of JP but eventually they realize it's their farming time going down the drain by attempting to strongarm the competition out.

I would avoid linkshell groups altogether unless you're planning on winning the top 5 pool as it'll usually boil down to them lotting everything as a linkshell over letting you lot unless they know you but for smallman/PUG chambers, pick a coin type and go for it. /seacom has become popular on Lakshmi.

Some of the #2 runs have become quite civil with people actually sticking to their one coin type and raising the dead. As always it only takes one idiot to fuck it all up but I think most people realize that being a dick will only hinder your progress inside the Walk.

[FailureMidgard]

I haven't done WoE much, but I want to know a bit about the etiquette of the areas... I'll sum it up as such:

Would I be a douche if I...

This is just my opinion, but...
There's being a douche and being a leech.
Being a douche is going into a run where you aren't needed (LS or organized group) and trying to get a top5 chest.
Being a leech is going into a run and not helping while lotting stuff that goes in the pool.

1) ...hang around the area in my down time, and jump in when another group enters, then lot stuff? (Not leech, I actually kill stuff, just uninvited)

Did the group need your help? We generally take 4 and can clear chamber2 with a 100% success rate. I'm fairly certain 3 can as well. Then again, if we have 3-4 and you pass stuff in pool and just take your 4th place chest, we probably don't care. If we have 5 and you do it, you're being a douche. If all you're doing is lotting stuff, why not enter solo in a chamber nobody is doing?

2) ...hang around the area in my down time, and jump in when a group enters, pass everything - but try to get a top 5 chest?

I think this is pretty douche-bagesque. Certain jobs get chests virtually guaranteed, while others have no chance. A group that enters with 5-6 can probably tell you who will be top2 every time, who will be 3/4, and who will not get a chest (hint: the bard). You're just fucking over the bard.

3) ...take a group into WoE, and not invite others to the alliance?

I support this.

4) ...take a group into WoE, and not raise outsiders when they die?

I support this, as well as purposefully MPKing people that are there uninvited. I don't see how it's any less rude than showing up and denying even a lowman organized group their coins when you wouldn't be clearing shit without them.

This morning I entered on a JP group. I passed all drops (including the final group chest) on both runs. I did however, try my best for a top 5 chest, and managed to place 3rd out of 14 despite not getting songs, haste or cures. The group didn't say anything to me at all, and their only action was continuously moving the mob away from me after I got bound or ate the knockback+gravity TP move. I know SE designed the zone as a free for all, but was I being a douche by just going in?

This isn't an accomplishment. I can get 14k exp without trying as a redmage with no songs/etc/etc. Really, most their ally can't even compete, you're just stealing candy from kids. They probably didn't need you, as much as you think you helped, they probably would have cleared without you, easily, and all you did was steal a chest from them. I think you're being a douche by doing it - that being said, Walk of Echoes is a battle of douches, and I guarantee you those JP assholes won't extend you any courtesy as far as leeching and taking chests from any organized group you bring - so by all means keep doing it.

[Odin'sLaw]

This is just my opinion, but...
There's being a douche and being a leech.
Being a douche is going into a run where you aren't needed (LS or organized group) and trying to get a top5 chest.
Being a leech is going into a run and not helping while lotting stuff that goes in the pool.



Did the group need your help? We generally take 4 and can clear chamber2 with a 100% success rate. I'm fairly certain 3 can as well. Then again, if we have 3-4 and you pass stuff in pool and just take your 4th place chest, we probably don't care. If we have 5 and you do it, you're being a douche. If all you're doing is lotting stuff, why not enter solo in a chamber nobody is doing?



I think this is pretty douche-bagesque. Certain jobs get chests virtually guaranteed, while others have no chance. A group that enters with 5-6 can probably tell you who will be top2 every time, who will be 3/4, and who will not get a chest (hint: the bard). You're just fucking over the bard.




I support this.



I support this, as well as purposefully MPKing people that are there uninvited. I don't see how it's any less rude than showing up and denying even a lowman organized group their coins when you wouldn't be clearing shit without them.



This isn't an accomplishment. I can get 14k exp without trying as a redmage with no songs/etc/etc. Really, most their ally can't even compete, you're just stealing candy from kids. They probably didn't need you, as much as you think you helped, they probably would have cleared without you, easily, and all you did was steal a chest from them. I think you're being a douche by doing it - that being said, Walk of Echoes is a battle of douches, and I guarantee you those JP assholes won't extend you any courtesy as far as leeching and taking chests from any organized group you bring - so by all means keep doing it.

even though i do like Failure and he does help out with tests and such
you need to get your fucking head out your ass, your in the 1% of players that has the best of the best
i do agree with not joining other peoples runs due to it been pretty assholish
but WoE is ment to be abused in such away so as long as your not mpking people i guess its all fair play?

[Thorny]

even though i do like Failure and he does help out with tests and such
you need to get your fucking head out your ass, your in the 1% of players that has the best of the best
i do agree with not joining other peoples runs due to it been pretty assholish
but WoE is ment to be abused in such away so as long as your not mpking people i guess its all fair play?

Very logical and well structured argument. I'm convinced, don't worry, I won't mpk any of the people who try to leech my runs any more. I'll even raise them if they die, and give them haste and alliance slots. While I'm at it, why bother keeping pouches from the big chest? I'll just hand those over to pickups too, they need it more than us top 1% players.

[FailureMidgard]

even though i do like Failure and he does help out with tests and such
you need to get your fucking head out your ass, your in the 1% of players that has the best of the best
i do agree with not joining other peoples runs due to it been pretty assholish
but WoE is ment to be abused in such away so as long as your not mpking people i guess its all fair play?

Wat? First off, I participate in the douchebaggery that is WoE. I will gladly go into people's runs, leech the fuck out of it, lot 3 of the 5 coins, and take my first place chest. I'm sure there's some innocent people getting hurt in all this - but fuck it, people do that shit to us. I think you missed the point of my post - I don't care how good you are, or anything else, please tell me how it's -not- a douchebag move to go into a run when a group has 5-6 and is clearing easily, place ahead of their bard and get shit for yourself. You couldn't clear it, they could. You took a chest from a support person. I fail to see how this is not a douchebag move, or how I have my head in my ass for thinking it's being a douchebag? I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying it's being a douchebag. Also, you say you agree with me, but tell me to get my head out of my ass, so I don't even know what to think. I'm all for people doing whatever the fuck they want, but it's a douchebag move, don't try to say it isn't.

WoE is a battle of douchebags. Douchebags enter my conflux and try to steal a chest from my bard and coins from the pool from all of us. So we retaliate and try to MPK them and force them to HP. It's all fair game in the end I guess.

[Odin'sLaw]

Very logical and well structured argument. I'm convinced, don't worry, I won't mpk any of the people who try to leech my runs any more. I'll even raise them if they die, and give them haste and alliance slots. While I'm at it, why bother keeping pouches from the big chest? I'll just hand those over to pickups too, they need it more than us top 1% players.

i actually ment the leechers not mpking the group, go nuts the other way around

[Francisco]

I kinda feel bad for the BRDs now... especially since I was considering using a BRD for the sac pulls (Hymnus = faster/easier Reraise)

Maybe I'll just get my WHM to bring in his THF mule...

Gay = the ones who go in and do nothing and lot though...

Can all of the top 5 chests drop all pouches, or just the top 3 or so?

[barber2006]

The problem is, of course, that the design of WOE as a free for all event leaves it up to the player to decide what is 'right'. The bottom line though, is that everyone on both sides of the argument are selfish pricks. Everyone playing this game wants what we want and will play the game in order to make that happen without regarding any outsiders. There are about 3 people I've met in 7 years on this game that this wasn't true for. LS's argue they should get all drops and soloers are leeches because they want their group to get items. Soloers try to find a way to justify piggybacking because they want an item. Both groups want the same thing: to advance their character and the characters of those they know.

However, like it or don't like it the rules are set up to allow all to lot. Thats the rule. It's kinda like the new possession rules in the NFL on pass completions. It's a sucky sucky rule. But week after week officials are forced to call easily observable receptions incomplete passes because of the way the rule is written. So ya, its a douche move to piggyback on another groups work. But that's the system in WOE. It's the same system that allows a rdm to CS, die, RR, and afk during a 30 minute campaign and lot the (then) 500k item. Until the lotting rules are changed its going to happen because everyone online is a selfish prick.

[solanis]

The problem is, of course, that the design of WOE as a free for all event leaves it up to the player to decide what is 'right'. The bottom line though, is that everyone on both sides of the argument are selfish pricks. Everyone playing this game wants what we want and will play the game in order to make that happen without regarding any outsiders. There are about 3 people I've met in 7 years on this game that this wasn't true for. LS's argue they should get all drops and soloers are leeches because they want their group to get items. Soloers try to find a way to justify piggybacking because they want an item. Both groups want the same thing: to advance their character and the characters of those they know.

However, like it or don't like it the rules are set up to allow all to lot. Thats the rule. It's kinda like the new possession rules in the NFL on pass completions. It's a sucky sucky rule. But week after week officials are forced to call easily observable receptions incomplete passes because of the way the rule is written. So ya, its a douche move to piggyback on another groups work. But that's the system in WOE. It's the same system that allows a rdm to CS, die, RR, and afk during a 30 minute campaign and lot the (then) 500k item. Until the lotting rules are changed its going to happen because everyone online is a selfish prick.

We either do it during JP hours since our local JPs are well-mannered, or we exit when leechers enter and start doing their thing. Really easy way to avoid any of this nonsense, as long as you aren't punching your time card when you log in, or are in a gigantic hurry to finish a weapon.

[Thorny]

Leaving and throwing away an hour to gain a moral victory over leechers doesn't really help anyone. If you finish your run, at least you get something.

[solanis]

Leaving and throwing away an hour to gain a moral victory over leechers doesn't really help anyone. If you finish your run, at least you get something.

If they enter and aren't confident they can take all top chests and keep the leechers out of the pool (lowman groups with a sac puller who gets fucked), and if they're going to bitch endlessly about it (aka this thread) then they really should just exit and spare the bad feelings and immaturity. It's a choice based on personal preference, but all this bitching suggests a level of negativity that would have them better served just leaving.

[Cream Soda]

Ok, so can someone break down the chest reward system and the top 5 jobs to do that as (maybe I have one of them)

85: Mnk sam drg pup cor war
75: Dnc

[Sin Harvest]

Ok, so can someone break down the chest reward system and the top 5 jobs to do that as (maybe I have one of them)

85: Mnk sam drg pup cor war
75: Dnc

If in a pt, cor/whm DD, buff and heal.
If solo Dancer.
If a good party, Drg/mage tank the world.

[Cream Soda]

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/15...h-list/#979920

[Odin'sLaw]

loving tigers work, and pup will normally bag you alot of "points" for chest ranking

[Cream Soda]

lol they are all butthurt and shit

[FailureMidgard]

If they enter and aren't confident they can take all top chests and keep the leechers out of the pool (lowman groups with a sac puller who gets fucked), and if they're going to bitch endlessly about it (aka this thread) then they really should just exit and spare the bad feelings and immaturity. It's a choice based on personal preference, but all this bitching suggests a level of negativity that would have them better served just leaving.

No idea who you're referring to. Most of us have accepted it - I'm merely stating that regardless of the face it's the way SE designed it, the way I participate in it, and the way everyone else participates it, it's still just a bunch of douchebaggery. As Thorny said, it's quite counter-productive for us to leave, but it makes it hard to get anyone to be willing to come bard or something (though really, if you have a decent DD setup and get ok temps, you can still do really well on bard).

Are you implying it's immature to MPK someone in WoE that's not invited and leeching? 'cause I will respectfully disagree. The way WoE is setup, it's a pvpve challenge where your goal is to win and get the chests. They even made it 0 exp loss akin to killing a charmed player. If someone else comes in and is trying to deny us rewards for our time, I see absolutely nothing wrong or immature with returning the favor and trying to deny them rewards for their time. It's not like I'm saying I go in with a different LS and try to MPK them - that's just griefing and is counter-productive for everyone. But trying to MPK a few solo people to the point they need to homepoint when they are leeching a run we don't want them in (while still clearing) is just as fair game as them entering to begin with.


CreamSoda -
It's just campaign, you want to deal damage, take damage, cure damage, and maybe erase/debuff? I don't know what the best is, but I can get ~13.5-14k reliably as a melee red mage just doing all the above (which is almost always first place coffer). Also, all coffers drop pouches, and I haven't really even seen a better rate from higher coffers (except for the fact first place seems to be able to load 2 pouches [but I still get 0 far often than I get 1-2]). 2nd-5th seem identical to my limited/eyeballed information.

[solanis]

Are you implying it's immature to MPK someone in WoE that's not invited and leeching? 'cause I will respectfully disagree. The way WoE is setup, it's a pvpve challenge where your goal is to win and get the chests. They even made it 0 exp loss akin to killing a charmed player. If someone else comes in and is trying to deny us rewards for our time, I see absolutely nothing wrong or immature with returning the favor and trying to deny them rewards for their time. It's not like I'm saying I go in with a different LS and try to MPK them - that's just griefing and is counter-productive for everyone. But trying to MPK a few solo people to the point they need to homepoint when they are leeching a run we don't want them in (while still clearing) is just as fair game as them entering to begin with.

Not at all, I do it myself on an almost daily basis and you'll get no argument from me. I think the people complaining about leechers should quit complaining and actually do something about it, whether it's MPKing them until they leave or just exiting and denying them any chests. Dealing with them is really obvious and it's getting obnoxious that people are seriously trying to debate whether leeching is annoying, etc. The point is action, not whining, which I'm sure you can agree with.