Walk of Echoes

[Babu]

Well, even if you're not going for multiple coins, you could be taking from someone who does.

Regardless, just by entering the zone you could be taking coins away from people who need them. Maybe if we took a poll on how many people received coins they don't need, but that pouch would have helped a groupmate out you would better understand my point.

Considering you can guarantee yourself a chest in every WoE you enter, that's an average of 1 coin you need per 3 runs. I dunno how you think lotting singles is better than that - in my group of 4, I'm the only one on Coin of Birth, and I've gotten some 3 coins total from lotting singles that drop.

I'm not suggesting you'll get coins faster by lotting singles. The point is that for the majority, most of your coins will come from lotting and not a placement chest.

From your example, it would take no less than 5 and no more than 20 chests to get a pouch. I basically met you halfway and said 10 in my post. If you clear 10 times you will probably see 2-3 pouches for the coins in the final loot pool. It should be pretty obvious why seeing coin pouches in the final pool is better for you than being stuck with what you get in the chest.

There is no counter-measure. You're acting as if those coins should be guaranteed to you because you are capable of clearing a zone lowman. It has nothing to do with countering other groups who would be just as capable. It has everything to do with how the event works. The only way to counter is to not participate. If the zone was setup so that only your group could enter, you would be fucking other people out of coins too so it's hard for me to sympathize. Actually no, it's impossible for me to sympathize.

[FailureMidgard]

I'm not looking at it from the aspect of personal profit. If I went there to try and solo coins with the zone showing 0 anyway, just for a group to show up 2 minutes after I started and suddenly feel entitled, yeah I'd be kinda miffed if they made it their purpose to MPK me. Remember, there was a patch, one I'm sure we're all familiar with, designed to curb the grief tactics that MPK caused. As of now, doing so in WoE is pretty much working around a technicality of the scrub mobs being classified NMs.

Oh cool, so when you make up a scenario that has -nothing- to do with anything I'm saying, here, I'll give a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Now I'll describe what actually happens. My group of 4-5 is in WoE along with 1-3 afk people. A search of the zone shows some ~8 people (5 of us, a 2boxed saccer, and 2 afkers). We do 2-3 runs uninterrupted. Suddenly someone shows up, enters our run. Dicks around..does some damage, does some curing, etc. We attempt to MPK the fuck out of him, let him RR, then do it again before he gets RR back up. If we fail, he ends up beating one of our people and takes one of our chests, all the while lotting on singles that drop. He's technically "helping out", but he isn't wanted there, he isn't needed there, and he most likely is only there -because- a search of the zone showed our group in there. Get off your bullshit high-horse and stop making up your own bullshit idea of what my side of the argument is. I don't run out to WoE just to MPK someone and strong-arm them out of WoE. In fact, in your example, I'd actually consider inviting said person because at least they were taking some initiative, doing it on their own, and weren't there to ride the coattails of others while robbing them. Feel free to go find a recent argument I had in media about my ideas on giving shit away - I'm totally cool with it to people that in my mind are worthy. The person in your example is worthy. The douchebag fuckwads in my example aren't (as a side note, why the fuck would anyone solo in the slime zone - oh that's right, they wouldn't, so your example doesn't even make goddamn sense, nor does any solo person coming into the zone).

Regardless, just by entering the zone you could be taking coins away from people who need them. Maybe if we took a poll on how many people received coins they don't need, but that pouch would have helped a groupmate out you would better understand my point.

Huh? My groupmates are in the same boat as me, I don't even know what you're saying. Yea, more often than not the wrong person gets the wrong pouch. It sucks, and we move on (though we all plan to make 2-3 weapons at least). The fact of the matter remains, we've all gotten more from pouches for our primary that we have "lotting rights" on, as well as bonus types of other ones we plan to make eventually from 1st-5th chests.

I'm not suggesting you'll get coins faster by lotting singles. The point is that for the majority, most of your coins will come from lotting and not a placement chest.

Don't think this is true for a single person in my group...but again, we kill 4 "boss" slimes and that's it, it's not like we're full clearing that zone, or crabs or anything. We also don't have a thf, if TH affects it.

From your example, it would take no less than 5 and no more than 20 chests to get a pouch. I basically met you halfway and said 10 in my post. If you clear 10 times you will probably see 2-3 pouches for the coins in the final loot pool. It should be pretty obvious why seeing coin pouches in the final pool is better for you than being stuck with what you get in the chest.

We've done some ~15-20 clears, I've seen 4 pouches in the final pool, 2 of which were fucking ruin. The majority of all of our coins for primary and secondary weapons is from placement chests, sorry.

There is no counter-measure. You're acting as if those coins should be guaranteed to you because you are capable of clearing a zone lowman. It has nothing to do with countering other groups who would be just as capable. It has everything to do with how the event works. The only way to counter is to not participate.

See above. If you want to solo, go solo a zone that's empty. If you aren't doing that, it begs the question as to what your intent truly is. It's either to come in and try to take our chests, because we are clearing (or just be able to lot on our final lootpool), or well, that's all I can think of. You like to justify "helping out" or other bullshit, but the bottom line is if you were truly just trying to earn your own weapon, you'd go into one of the empty fucking zones and solo. You fully intend to ride our coattails, you fully understand that you can't clear it solo, and thus, you leech. We can't even switch and clear a different zone, because you're just gonna fucking follow us, because you're a goddamn fucking parasite. If another full group comes out, we will gladly try to work it out with them and figure out a way so we aren't overlapping, because overlap is bad for BOTH groups. The fact of the matter is, we rarely even see another group, it's just 1-3 leeches, always. There is 1 JP duo that's there all day and farms crabs, and I have the utmost respect for them. THEY are being honorable. Anyone siding with your bullshit isn't....and again, I don't care, power to you, but get the fuck off your high-horse and accept that you are being a douchebag, and I will engage you in the Battle of Douchebaggery.

If the zone was setup so that only your group could enter, you would be fucking other people out of coins too so it's hard for me to sympathize. Actually no, it's impossible for me to sympathize.

lol? Ever heard of Salvage? Or Nyzul? Nice logical step you made there though, if it were instanced, I'd be fucking others out of coins...clearly...

[Babu]

My groupmates are in the same boat as me, I don't even know what you're saying. Yea, more often than not the wrong person gets the wrong pouch.

You know exactly what I'm saying because you said it yourself. More often than not the right person gets the wrong pouch. More often than not the person who gets 'screwed out of a chest' would have got some shit they didn't need. Your case is a bit different though. I'd assume your group all wants multiple coins since you're all doing 2-3 weapons so it probably won't really apply until you complete all but one. Meanwhile, most people (including the ones you MPK) would most likely be happy completing one and would probably just as happily hand over the coins they don't need if they could.

I never said it was "helping out". The point of the event is for people to enter, do their job and collect spoils. That is what your group wants, that is what my LS wants and that is what that guy soloing 3 crabs at a time trying to avoid being MPK'd by you wants. If you deserve, then we all fucking deserve. Right? It is not your zone. They are not your chests until you place for them. They are not your coins until they land in your inventory. I personally don't ride coattails. I go in with my LS or a pug group. When we go pug everyone is content sticking to one coin type and free-lotting everything else. It's fair, it works well and it's probably what the devs had in mind when they created this event. Apparently they gave us way too much credit because the general response seems to be "Get the fuck off my coins, get the fuck off my zone". I could've sworn this game was rated teen and up. Way too many kids not willing to share their toys in here.

Anyone siding with your bullshit isn't....and again, I don't care, power to you, but get the fuck off your high-horse and accept that you are being a douchebag, and I will engage you in the Battle of Douchebaggery.

Like I said, everyone I have gone into WoE with (one exception) is perfectly ok with it. They understand that they are not the only person on the planet who enjoys WoE, wants to participate and wants to eventually put together a really nice weapon. They understand that everyone is there for the same thing and they're fine with that.

Ever heard of Salvage? Or Nyzul? Nice logical step you made there though, if it were instanced, I'd be fucking others out of coins...clearly...

You bitch because there is a chance that someone might place for a chest that contains an even smaller chance of coins being distributed to someone who needs them. You pointed out yourself that most of the time the right coins go the the wrong person. You might not have thought about it until you'd seen it happen, but a leech came to an LS run I had and placed for a chest. Boo hoo right? Well actually two out of the 3 people who placed behind him got pouches they actually needed. It works both ways.

You also bitch that you don't need people to clear, but you're not even clearing. You go in, sac pull with dual box accounts(more for you right?) and only kill what you need to get to the final loot pool. I'm baffled. You pass up all those chances for coins that you can actually see in the loot pool. You have all those chances to put coins in the hands of people who can and will actually put them to use, but for some reason you feel it's a better use of your time to try to MPK them? The Battle of Douchebaggery was over before it started. You are the victor...clearly...

[Cream Soda]

Oh, definitely pertaining to contents of the last page, can mobs be CHF'd in WoE?

[Vigilia]

Oh, definitely pertaining to contents of the last page, can mobs be CHF'd in WoE?

Nah, it's like campaign and dynamis; since mobs can be attacked by anyone in the zone they can't be CFH'd either. Also rather irritatingly /blockaid doesn't work either.

[Cream Soda]

Also rather irritatingly /blockaid doesn't work either.

How can this be used against them?

[Vigilia]

How can this be used against them?

Not completely sure who/what you mean by "them"?

[Cream Soda]

Said ls from the last page. They fucked me over for 20 mins, so I'm going to return the same and leave it at that, unless they want to go further with it. I'd be happy to oblige that option as well.

[Vigilia]

Ah, well, I don't think you could use to directly fuck with another player but it can be used by a mage to gain a chest position with "minimal" effort. The great campaign bard nerf doesn't apply to WoE's point calculation. So if you want to annoy a LS doing WoE just go there, spam pointless buffs non-stop (i.e. do jack shit towards the actual win) and score a chest. It's what happened to us when we found out that /blockaid is useless.

[Cream Soda]

Awesome. Do points for chest start once you enter or once the first mob is engaged? Do types of buffs matter? (like tect 1 vs tect 2). Could I just sub whm w/ some yag drinks and spam low tier buffs on myself and cure others?

[Vigilia]

Honestly don't know when points start accumulating but I would assume they start when the timer starts, i.e. when a mob is first aggroed. IF it's like campaign point system buffs that take no effect will not count, i.e. spamming prot/shell I-IV is pointless if there's a WHM or RDM doing Vs and cures only count for the amount of HP cured. Haste is good because it always rewrites itself. I've only ever done WoE with the LS so don't know all the details, just been pissed off in the past at leechers who just stand there and spam spells on us and get chests but not paid too much attention to them... best way to get points in WoE in my experience is to do stuff constantly so I just focus on my own job and rarely stop and look what others are doing.

[Plow]

The mind tricks it takes to convince yourself that someone that comes in and "does some damage, does some healing" is a "douchebag fuckwad" while you're willing to waste time "mpking the shit out of them" until it works are pretty astounding.


AFK mpk'ing anyone that joins my union in campaign.

[Odin'sLaw]

The mind tricks it takes to convince yourself that someone that comes in and "does some damage, does some healing" is a "douchebag fuckwad" while you're willing to waste time "mpking the shit out of them" until it works are pretty astounding.


AFK mpk'ing anyone that joins my union in campaign.

JPs been doing that for years :/

[Cream Soda]

Honestly don't know when points start accumulating but I would assume they start when the timer starts, i.e. when a mob is first aggroed. IF it's like campaign point system buffs that take no effect will not count, i.e. spamming prot/shell I-IV is pointless if there's a WHM or RDM doing Vs and cures only count for the amount of HP cured. Haste is good because it always rewrites itself. I've only ever done WoE with the LS so don't know all the details, just been pissed off in the past at leechers who just stand there and spam spells on us and get chests but not paid too much attention to them... best way to get points in WoE in my experience is to do stuff constantly so I just focus on my own job and rarely stop and look what others are doing.

Hmmm what i meant is like tect 1 myself, cancel it, repeat. Or does it have to be on other people?

[Tsuko_Asura]

If its the same as campaign, which is most likely, you shouldn't need to act on any mob or anyone engaging any mob, which means you could just spam on yourself. Otherwise, you'd need to do something to get on the target's hate list, then do whatever you want to yourself.

[Draylo]

How does their logic surprise you considering who it's coming from? The top of the top of moral standards.

[TummieGaruda]

Wouldn't surprise me if SE adjusted WoE in the next update so that there isn't a ranking system (1st place, 2nd Place, etc) but changed it so that everyone who participates gets a chest, but the quality of the chest obtained is based on how much the player contributes to the fight. If 10 players go into WoE and contribute the predetermined maximum effort, then all 10 players get the highest chest reward.

[Thorny]

I think what annoys me more than the true leeches is the people who go into #1 and #3 solo and kill one mob so that the zone is down for an hour. There are always people in #2, and #4/6 are still locked on my server. This means we're stuck in 5 or clearing zones for people we know will place because they're killing garbage mobs. Honestly, the system is incredibly flawed.. there was even a duo sac pulling baby slimes in #2 the other day.

[Cream Soda]

Thorn, is 2 doable w/ mnk + rdm (or whm) + sack puller? If so, how do you deal w/ hate/dissolve. (I'd guess the mage would have to have a good amount of not suck here?)

[Thorny]

I haven't tried, lowest I've gone in #2 is 3(RDM BRD MNK 3boxed, did sacs on brd by pulling with elegy, mnk chi+counterstance to get hate). Mob pre-elegied when it gets to camp, brd reraises and comes back to sing once shit moves. I don't think dissolve is a full hate reset, only partial, but it's hard to say since I'm pretty picky with my enm- gear. Guess that's kind of close to what you're asking, but sac is useful in my case.