New Windurst Quest Line

[Athas]

So uh, any news on the difficulty of the two windy bc fights?

[Aumaan_Kujata]

So uh, any news on the difficulty of the two windy bc fights?

Harder than SanD, not as hard as Bastok, heh.

I did both fights with a party of 5, I forget the exact composition now, but nintank, 2 rdms, 2 DDs.

First fight is harder- it's against a yagudo and two unsleepable but wussy air elementals. I kited them away on rdm/nin (the /nin turned out to be fairly pointless), while the rest worked on the yagudo. He has some aoe damage, aoe doom, and aoe strip moves, but nothing too terrible. He killed two people early on with a sucker-punch from a few tp moves (I think- I was nowhere near at the time so can't be sure) so the one nin did a lot of the total damage to him. The elementals started out as total nonissues, other than the frustration of gravity and silence constantly. Even without baraero up at the start, they were doing 0 damage tornadoes and aeroga3s to me- it took several to break stoneskin. Their melee attacks were sub-phalanx. I ended up going back into range of the yagudo to help cure briefly while they pounded on me. After a while, though, they started doing more damage to me, and eventually I got sloppy and they interrupted me enough to kill me. It seems like they get stronger as the yagudo gets damaged, but I might have let too many buffs slip or something too, so wouldn't call that definite. I still wouldn't have died if I'd been a little more on the ball with timing my cures. The other rdm picked them up and I used my weakened mp to throw a few cures on the DDs while they finished the bird off. Ultimately, I think the fight might be trioable, especially at 80, with a DD/nin, healer, and elemental-holder. But if you lose, you have to go back out to Meriphitaud and then climb oztroja_s again, which is really the worst part, so the more the merrier.

After you win, you have to go back down to Meriphitaud anyway, and get another key item. (The same key item, the NPC even gives you the "Oh, you lost your key? Try to take better care of this one." speech. Very lazy, Square.) Then you go back up and re-enter the BC. Fight's against one target this time, with one NPC for support (being vague in case someone's still in this thread and spoiler-averse, even though it's probably not necessary). Pretty easy. Target has three modes, two of them casters, one with some aoe tp moves, but nothing seriously threatening came out of any of them. I don't think either casting mode used -agas, though one had an aoe damage tp move. The NPC took almost no damage throughout the fight. Neither did any of us, really, except the NIN once when shadows were down and they took a few melee rounds. Hard to tell how lowman you could go on it since we ripped it apart so fast with 5; it probably depends on how well the NPC stands up to damage. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's soloable at 80, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't, either, depending on NPC squishiness. A duo with a DDtank and a healer is even more likely. Again, though, if you lose you have to climb Oztroja again, and doing that without enough people to safely mop up the birds around the 4-lever door if necessary is irritating.

Hope there's something useful in all that rambling. I may have gotten carried away, heh. Windurst wins the plot war, for the record. The end CSs aren't as good as the ones around Howl from the Heavens, but they're good, with a VERY nice little twist right at the end.

[LinktheDeme]

Harder than SanD, not as hard as Bastok, heh.

I did both fights with a party of 5, I forget the exact composition now, but nintank, 2 rdms, 2 DDs.

First fight is harder- it's against a yagudo and two unsleepable but wussy air elementals. I kited them away on rdm/nin (the /nin turned out to be fairly pointless), while the rest worked on the yagudo. He has some aoe damage, aoe doom, and aoe strip moves, but nothing too terrible. He killed two people early on with a sucker-punch from a few tp moves (I think- I was nowhere near at the time so can't be sure) so the one nin did a lot of the total damage to him. The elementals started out as total nonissues, other than the frustration of gravity and silence constantly. Even without baraero up at the start, they were doing 0 damage tornadoes and aeroga3s to me- it took several to break stoneskin. Their melee attacks were sub-phalanx. I ended up going back into range of the yagudo to help cure briefly while they pounded on me. After a while, though, they started doing more damage to me, and eventually I got sloppy and they interrupted me enough to kill me. It seems like they get stronger as the yagudo gets damaged, but I might have let too many buffs slip or something too, so wouldn't call that definite. I still wouldn't have died if I'd been a little more on the ball with timing my cures. The other rdm picked them up and I used my weakened mp to throw a few cures on the DDs while they finished the bird off. Ultimately, I think the fight might be trioable, especially at 80, with a DD/nin, healer, and elemental-holder. But if you lose, you have to go back out to Meriphitaud and then climb oztroja_s again, which is really the worst part, so the more the merrier.

After you win, you have to go back down to Meriphitaud anyway, and get another key item. (The same key item, the NPC even gives you the "Oh, you lost your key? Try to take better care of this one." speech. Very lazy, Square.) Then you go back up and re-enter the BC. Fight's against one target this time, with one NPC for support (being vague in case someone's still in this thread and spoiler-averse, even though it's probably not necessary). Pretty easy. Target has three modes, two of them casters, one with some aoe tp moves, but nothing seriously threatening came out of any of them. I don't think either casting mode used -agas, though one had an aoe damage tp move. The NPC took almost no damage throughout the fight. Neither did any of us, really, except the NIN once when shadows were down and they took a few melee rounds. Hard to tell how lowman you could go on it since we ripped it apart so fast with 5; it probably depends on how well the NPC stands up to damage. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's soloable at 80, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't, either, depending on NPC squishiness. A duo with a DDtank and a healer is even more likely. Again, though, if you lose you have to climb Oztroja again, and doing that without enough people to safely mop up the birds around the 4-lever door if necessary is irritating.

Hope there's something useful in all that rambling. I may have gotten carried away, heh. Windurst wins the plot war, for the record. The end CSs aren't as good as the ones around Howl from the Heavens, but they're good, with a VERY nice little twist right at the end.

does not have AOE doom

also for the second fight when you fight fenrir i'd suggest having one melee out of range because howling moon (around 70% until it uses it I think it used it @ around 60%) may kill your melee.

[Spira]

i loved that little twist at the end...

i like the way SE is tying up the nation quests

[Alkar]

does not have AOE doom

also for the second fight when you fight fenrir i'd suggest having one melee out of range because howling moon (around 70% until it uses it I think it used it @ around 60%) may kill your melee.

He never used Howling Moon on us and we didn't really zerg him. I guess it's simply added to his list after a certain % and we got really lucky.
Was kinda expecting him to so my melees were fully buffed (stoneskin+ phalanx+ Shining Ruby) but it never happened. The other two forms are just pushovers.

[BRP]

Has anyone tested the ring yet? (Don't have it yet)

[BRP]

Windurst ending missions are some of the best in the game storywise.

You know, I really wish SE cared about making these fights hard! The concepts are cool, but a waste given the ability to overrun them. These felt like level 70 fights at best. Maybe 60. With no caps or anything to justify those levels. (The final bastok battle was actually a little challenging, the first half anyway.) It would be nice if they matched the quality of storyline like CoP did.

I am annoyed that

Spoiler: show

Tzee didn't go into the future. I was totally betting on that! I mean he mysteriously disappears during the raid on the castle and reappears 20 years later when Yagudo lifespans don't last that long. I thought I had that one guessed from the start.

The big twist you guys are talking about was the "dad" right? Not sure if I missed anything.

[LinktheDeme]

I am annoyed that

Spoiler: show

Tzee didn't go into the future. I was totally betting on that! I mean he mysteriously disappears during the raid on the castle and reappears 20 years later when Yagudo lifespans don't last that long. I thought I had that one guessed from the start.

The big twist you guys are talking about was the "dad" right? Not sure if I missed anything.

Spoiler: show

wut dad thing? I think I missed something ;o

I'm glad they made the missions easier imo. It was hard enough finding people as is, having three different possible paths narrows down the people who do missions wayyyy to thinly.

[Aelyn]

About the twist (its not a real twist imo)

Spoiler: show

It explains too why romaah is in Khazam in present days : waiting lehko back? Then it seems too Nanaa is Lehko daughter, but its not so clear.

But its kindda weird : if I remember well, the present romaah (H-11 Khazam) is not in good terms with windurst cause things which happenned during war : I presume lot of mithra death (am I correct ?) We learned in last quests that these kills were causing by lehko and his revenge will against all the mithras people. He convincing tarus to use mithras a lot during fight to decimate them little by little.

Then it seems she still likes him even after this "betrayal". And it seems she hates taru instead of him. That sounds weird to me, but maybe I'm totally wrong btw

[Spira]

have to agree to a certain extent that the battles werent challenging enough, but then again, the number of people who actually do them number far less than WotG missions due to the 3 way fork and it'd be pretty demanding if we needed to hunt for jobs within a much smaller pool than people who bother to do missions to begin with, and then face the fact that quest missions incur EXP losses (some of them do). that would be pretty harsh..

instead they kinda made it rather tedious to get things done, like with the key farming and climbing Oztroja twice, which isn't necessarily hard.. just a hassle.. It does feel rewarding enough tho, coupled with the story CS.. to me.

I do fully expect a much harder final BC fight for the next update.. a showdown with Lilith.. probably extremely hard at 75.. but maybe less so by 85++

[BRP]

So I don't plan on hitting 80 until next week... someone should test out that ring. If it gives magic attack it should be easy.

[Aumaan_Kujata]

I've been playing with the Zodiac and Excelsis rings while waiting for placeholders camping Drooling Daisy for a Magian trial sequence I'll probably never finish, so I can shed a little light on them.

Zodiac Ring seems to give approximately a 3% boost to the damage of spells of the current day's element, rounded down. How and where it's built into the magic damage calculation, I'm not entirely sure, obviously, heh.

Data supporting this inside the spoiler block, not particularly cleaned up but hopefully comprehensible:

Spoiler: show

FIRESDAY
fire1, ochu:
128 ring
128 ring
125
125
128 ring
3/125 = .0240 (next value up (4/125) = .032)

fire1, poison leech
134 ring
134 ring
134 ring
131
131
3/131 = .0229 (next value up = .0305)

fire1, poison leech:
129
129
129
132 ring
146 ring <-- day bonus proc
3/128 = .0234 (next value up = .0313)

fire1 poison leech
134 ring
134 ring
134 ring
131
131
3/131 = .0229 (next value up = .0305)

fire2, poison leech:
292 ring
284
320 ring <-- day bonus proc
8/284 = .0282 (next value up = .0317)

fire3, poison leech:
569 ring
553
16/553 = .0289 (next value up = .0307)

fire3, ochu
541
557 ring
16/541 = .0296 (next value up = .0314)

fire3, poison leech:
553
624 ring
probable day bonus proc

fire3, ochu
613 ring
544
probable day bonus proc

fire2, poison leech
315 ring
285
probable day bonus proc

fire2, ochu
276
284 ring
302 <-- day bonus proc
310 ring <-- day bonus proc
276
8/276 = .0290 (next value up = .0326)
8/302 = .0265 (next value up = .0298 )

fire3, poison leech
608 <-- day bonus proc
569 ring

fire2, poison leech
321 ring
313
8/313 = .0256 (next value up = .0288 )

fire3, ochu
544
560 ring
16/544 = .0294 (next value up = .0313)

EARTHDAY
stone3, ochu
460 ring
407
probable day bonus proc

stone1, clipper
29 <-- resist
55 ring
54
55 ring
54
55 ring
54
55 ring
59 <-- day bonus proc
55 ring
55 ring
1/54 = .0185 (next value up = .0385)

stone2, ochu
192
197 ring
5/192 = .0260 (next value up = .0313)

WINDSDAY
aero2, ochu
243 ring
260 <-- day bonus proc
267 ring <-- day bonus proc
237
267 ring <-- day bonus proc
237
6/237 = .0253 (next value up = .0295)
7/260 = .0269 (next value up = .0308 )

aero1, poison leech
103
105 ring
103
105 ring
103
105 ring
2/103 = .0194 (next value up = .0231) ***

aero3, poison leech
504 ring
490
14/490 = .0286 (next value up = .0306)

(*** upper bound is abnormally low.)

Intersection of all lower/upper bounds ignoring ***:
empty set, .0296 to .0288...

Excelsis is much more of a pain to test, naturally. I gave it a shot by spamming aspir on crabs, alternating with and without ring, until they were empty, throwing out the last aspir amount before 0, and throwing out the last full result if it led to an uneven number of ring/no ring uses on a particular crab, and then checked the stats for with and without ring. Eleven crabs total, before I got my 3 kills and was entirely sick of it, which isn't really an adequate sample size, but I may as well post it anyway. Results were:

With ring:
(max, min) = (98,24)
quartiles (third, median, first) = (85, 70, 59)
average = 69.4

Without ring:
(max, min) = (94, 10)
quartiles (third, median, first) = (75.5, 69, 56.5)
average = 66.2

So a very small improvement in damage alleged, on the general order of 5% (just comparing averages). Again, though, the sample size is too small, your mileage may vary, caveat emptor, etc.

Here's the data for this testing:

Spoiler: show

clipper #1
72 aspir
98 aspir (ring)
55 aspir
76 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
69 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
93 aspir (ring)
63 aspir (ring)
69 aspir
89 aspir (ring)
1 aspir <-- crab empty, throwing out previous line too, to even out
0

clipper #2
91 aspir (ring)
78 aspir
54 aspir
30 aspir (ring)
57 aspir
77 aspir (ring)
82 aspir
62 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
60 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #3
61 aspir
97 aspir (ring)
72 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
51 aspir
90 aspir (ring)
80 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
75 aspir
73 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
28 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #4
94 aspir (ring)
48 aspir
69 aspir (ring)
78 aspir
81 aspir (ring)
71 aspir
50 aspir (ring)
94 aspir
61 aspir (ring)
72 aspir
84 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty
0

clipper #5
72 aspir
92 aspir (ring)
59 aspir
24 aspir (ring)
10 aspir
89 aspir (ring)
71 aspir (ring)
58 aspir
39 aspir (ring)
27 aspir
82 aspir (ring)
34 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #6
56 aspir (ring)
71 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
80 aspir
92 aspir (ring)
77 aspir
87 aspir (ring)
56 aspir
82 aspir (ring)
36 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #7
77 aspir (ring)
58 aspir
65 aspir (ring)
56 aspir
60 aspir (ring)
87 aspir
73 aspir (ring)
55 aspir
91 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
90 aspir (ring)
33 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #8
67 aspir
70 aspir (ring)
50 aspir
77 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
29 aspir (ring)
68 aspir
58 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
80 aspir (ring)
43 aspir <-- crab empty
0

clipper #9
81 aspir (ring)
67 aspir
64 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
79 aspir (ring)
81 aspir
56 aspir (ring)
70 aspir
50 aspir (ring)
52 aspir
49 aspir (ring)
76 aspir
61 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty
0

clipper #10
78 aspir
87 aspir (ring)
75 aspir
62 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
51 aspir (ring)
62 aspir
70 aspir (ring)
66 aspir
43 aspir (ring)
87 aspir
33 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #11
67 aspir
54 aspir (ring)
84 aspir
94 aspir (ring)
52 aspir
66 aspir (ring)
66 aspir
88 aspir (ring)
57 aspir
83 aspir (ring)
64 aspir
27 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

Testing the Griffon Ring seems a little above my pay grade. I'm tempted to put it in my idle set since I seem to get critted every other round when I pull hate, but composing and running a decent test is daunting.

(Just for clarity's sake- all mobs listed in the data are in Rolanberry Field around the lake at the back door of Crawler's Nest. All tests were done on rdm80/blm40 without elemental staves (magian sword, heh), and with a fairly random mix of gear on I could list, but I don't think is relevant so not bothering with it right now.)

[BRP]

Thank you for the work.

[CDF]

I've been playing with the Zodiac and Excelsis rings while waiting for placeholders camping Drooling Daisy for a Magian trial sequence I'll probably never finish, so I can shed a little light on them.

Zodiac Ring seems to give approximately a 3% boost to the damage of spells of the current day's element, rounded down. How and where it's built into the magic damage calculation, I'm not entirely sure, obviously, heh.

Data supporting this inside the spoiler block, not particularly cleaned up but hopefully comprehensible:

Spoiler: show

FIRESDAY
fire1, ochu:
128 ring
128 ring
125
125
128 ring
3/125 = .0240 (next value up (4/125) = .032)

fire1, poison leech
134 ring
134 ring
134 ring
131
131
3/131 = .0229 (next value up = .0305)

fire1, poison leech:
129
129
129
132 ring
146 ring <-- day bonus proc
3/128 = .0234 (next value up = .0313)

fire1 poison leech
134 ring
134 ring
134 ring
131
131
3/131 = .0229 (next value up = .0305)

fire2, poison leech:
292 ring
284
320 ring <-- day bonus proc
8/284 = .0282 (next value up = .0317)

fire3, poison leech:
569 ring
553
16/553 = .0289 (next value up = .0307)

fire3, ochu
541
557 ring
16/541 = .0296 (next value up = .0314)

fire3, poison leech:
553
624 ring
probable day bonus proc

fire3, ochu
613 ring
544
probable day bonus proc

fire2, poison leech
315 ring
285
probable day bonus proc

fire2, ochu
276
284 ring
302 <-- day bonus proc
310 ring <-- day bonus proc
276
8/276 = .0290 (next value up = .0326)
8/302 = .0265 (next value up = .0298 )

fire3, poison leech
608 <-- day bonus proc
569 ring

fire2, poison leech
321 ring
313
8/313 = .0256 (next value up = .0288 )

fire3, ochu
544
560 ring
16/544 = .0294 (next value up = .0313)

EARTHDAY
stone3, ochu
460 ring
407
probable day bonus proc

stone1, clipper
29 <-- resist
55 ring
54
55 ring
54
55 ring
54
55 ring
59 <-- day bonus proc
55 ring
55 ring
1/54 = .0185 (next value up = .0385)

stone2, ochu
192
197 ring
5/192 = .0260 (next value up = .0313)

WINDSDAY
aero2, ochu
243 ring
260 <-- day bonus proc
267 ring <-- day bonus proc
237
267 ring <-- day bonus proc
237
6/237 = .0253 (next value up = .0295)
7/260 = .0269 (next value up = .0308 )

aero1, poison leech
103
105 ring
103
105 ring
103
105 ring
2/103 = .0194 (next value up = .0231) ***

aero3, poison leech
504 ring
490
14/490 = .0286 (next value up = .0306)

(*** upper bound is abnormally low.)

Intersection of all lower/upper bounds ignoring ***:
empty set, .0296 to .0288...

Excelsis is much more of a pain to test, naturally. I gave it a shot by spamming aspir on crabs, alternating with and without ring, until they were empty, throwing out the last aspir amount before 0, and throwing out the last full result if it led to an uneven number of ring/no ring uses on a particular crab, and then checked the stats for with and without ring. Eleven crabs total, before I got my 3 kills and was entirely sick of it, which isn't really an adequate sample size, but I may as well post it anyway. Results were:

With ring:
(max, min) = (98,24)
quartiles (third, median, first) = (85, 70, 59)
average = 69.4

Without ring:
(max, min) = (94, 10)
quartiles (third, median, first) = (75.5, 69, 56.5)
average = 66.2

So a very small improvement in damage alleged, on the general order of 5% (just comparing averages). Again, though, the sample size is too small, your mileage may vary, caveat emptor, etc.

Here's the data for this testing:

Spoiler: show

clipper #1
72 aspir
98 aspir (ring)
55 aspir
76 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
69 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
93 aspir (ring)
63 aspir (ring)
69 aspir
89 aspir (ring)
1 aspir <-- crab empty, throwing out previous line too, to even out
0

clipper #2
91 aspir (ring)
78 aspir
54 aspir
30 aspir (ring)
57 aspir
77 aspir (ring)
82 aspir
62 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
60 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #3
61 aspir
97 aspir (ring)
72 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
51 aspir
90 aspir (ring)
80 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
75 aspir
73 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
28 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #4
94 aspir (ring)
48 aspir
69 aspir (ring)
78 aspir
81 aspir (ring)
71 aspir
50 aspir (ring)
94 aspir
61 aspir (ring)
72 aspir
84 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty
0

clipper #5
72 aspir
92 aspir (ring)
59 aspir
24 aspir (ring)
10 aspir
89 aspir (ring)
71 aspir (ring)
58 aspir
39 aspir (ring)
27 aspir
82 aspir (ring)
34 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #6
56 aspir (ring)
71 aspir
59 aspir (ring)
80 aspir
92 aspir (ring)
77 aspir
87 aspir (ring)
56 aspir
82 aspir (ring)
36 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #7
77 aspir (ring)
58 aspir
65 aspir (ring)
56 aspir
60 aspir (ring)
87 aspir
73 aspir (ring)
55 aspir
91 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
90 aspir (ring)
33 aspir <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #8
67 aspir
70 aspir (ring)
50 aspir
77 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
29 aspir (ring)
68 aspir
58 aspir (ring)
74 aspir
80 aspir (ring)
43 aspir <-- crab empty
0

clipper #9
81 aspir (ring)
67 aspir
64 aspir (ring)
47 aspir
79 aspir (ring)
81 aspir
56 aspir (ring)
70 aspir
50 aspir (ring)
52 aspir
49 aspir (ring)
76 aspir
61 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty
0

clipper #10
78 aspir
87 aspir (ring)
75 aspir
62 aspir (ring)
88 aspir
51 aspir (ring)
62 aspir
70 aspir (ring)
66 aspir
43 aspir (ring)
87 aspir
33 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

clipper #11
67 aspir
54 aspir (ring)
84 aspir
94 aspir (ring)
52 aspir
66 aspir (ring)
66 aspir
88 aspir (ring)
57 aspir
83 aspir (ring)
64 aspir
27 aspir (ring) <-- crab empty, throw out previous to even out
0

Testing the Griffon Ring seems a little above my pay grade. I'm tempted to put it in my idle set since I seem to get critted every other round when I pull hate, but composing and running a decent test is daunting.

(Just for clarity's sake- all mobs listed in the data are in Rolanberry Field around the lake at the back door of Crawler's Nest. All tests were done on rdm80/blm40 without elemental staves (magian sword, heh), and with a fairly random mix of gear on I could list, but I don't think is relevant so not bothering with it right now.)

The effect of Zodiac Ring is +0.03 to the day/weather multiplicative factor of the magic damage function, which is consistent with your results.

I checked the Excelsis Ring effect with Drain on Zvahl Fortalices, and the potency bonus should be considered to be 5%. Examining the extrema is an alternative to comparing means.

Considering the variability of Aspir is less than Drain (smaller range of values), the true unresisted maximum and minimum for Aspir have a higher probability of being observed than that for Drain for a given sample size. In fact, after throwing out the data points that are obviously resists or are marginally so, we see that without the ring, the observed min and max are 47 and 94 and with the ring, 49 and 98.

At this point, I argue based on my own findings that the unresisted minimum could merely be 1/2 of the unresisted maximum for both Drain and Aspir, so 98 and 94 are plausibly the true maxima with the ring and without, respectively. 94*1.05 = 98.7, which is truncated to 98, so

It's not just that I happen to notice 94*1.05 = 98.7, so it is likely to be a 5% bonus. It's also considering my own observations for Drain (the relationship between the minimum and maximum, actual data) that this Aspir data set is consistent with the idea of a 5% bnous.