Old Traits and Abilities Leveld up

[jimbobsonofgod]

Are "Blood Pact: Ward"s nerfed by Avatar's Favor?

They aren't nerfed but what people are forgetting is that it resets the stacked refresh rate of diabolos's favor. So if you BP you'd be losing your extra refresh tics and you be back at 2 a tic til it built up again.

[thalandor]

Any news about Nin DualWield?

ATM nin and dnc have the same tier of DW ( IV) wich just doesnt seem right.

[Scritch]

If the rate continues NIN should get DWV at Lv.85. DNC gets DWIV 15 levels after NIN.

Pattern seems to be that DNC gets DWX five levels before NIN gets DWX+1. DNC gets DW1 at 20, 5 levels before NIN gets DW2 at 25. DNC gets DW2 at 40, 5 levels before NIN gets DW3 at 45.

Seems to make sense to me. NIN got just shafted since this update capped us at 80 instead of 85.

/speculation

[evilpaul]

Anyone parsed Counter rates on Monk yet? I'd swear we got another +5 ninja'd in.

[Plow]

They aren't nerfed but what people are forgetting is that it resets the stacked refresh rate of diabolos's favor. So if you BP you'd be losing your extra refresh tics and you be back at 2 a tic til it built up again.

Yeap, that's the problem, between cor offering nothing whatsoever outside the roll, and SMN being restricted from actually using their abilities while keeping up decent refresh, as I said:

It's not even an option to stand there and do nothing. It's what you do, period.


Fun shit.

[Shamaya]

Ehh, couple different things I want to comment on at once,

Thief - Resist Gravity IV?
Thf has gotten a resist grav trait every 20 levels starting at level 20, so there's a good chance it's upgraded at 80. I wouldn't know/want to test though, nor would I care -.-

Treasure Hunter
If anyone's read into any of the TH testing, especially what Enedin has tested, you'd see that both TH & TH2 affect normal items. The best testing to date suggests that each TH increases drop rates by 50%. They stack together, uncompounded. So if your drop rate is 10% without TH, it'd be 15% with TH1 and if you have TH1+TH2 it'd be 20%. There's never been even a shred of evidence to suggest that one or the other affects only certain types of treasure. Nor of course anything to suggest that it's not so. When SE has been asked about TH (the question not distinguishing between 1&2), SE has simply said in commentaries that affects "anything droppable" including r/ex items, quest items, coffer keys..

Thinking about it now, I think the reason that they have the two abilities separated in the menu is so that all players know for sure that there is another level of TH at 45, above level 37. This would be so that Thf could maintain its place in groups as the honorable "TH whore." Otherwise, players that wouldn't know any better might just have someone sub thief instead.

SE did say they would enhance Thief's TH in the future. Whether from an item or another trait is yet to be seen. I really hope it's not another dagger though. Or an item either. The amount of times I've been asked to wield a thief knife for stupid reasons (such as ancient beastcoins) .. ugh. Either way, I think it will be in a later update, rather than now, that TH will get buffed.

Thf/Cor
From the Alla' thief forums:

Reworked to fix a couple of issues, and compare based on cor gun+1/steel. My original comparison DID factor in the fact that THF/COR gets 2 charges like COR main.

COR/RDM

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Corsair's gun +1 (DMG 42)
Ammo: Steel bullet (DMG70)
Head: Corsair's tricorne
Neck: Ugg pendant (latent activated)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Back: Forban cape
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (42+70+5)*2*(1+.08+.07+.05+.05+.01+.03+.03+.04+.07 from BLM roll+.24)*1.15 = 117*2*1.67*1.15 = 449 damage

With full QD recast merits and mirke, QD will be used every 45 seconds. Over the course of 6 minutes, it will be used 9 times (6 mins/45 secs = 8, plus one extra charge) for a total of 4041 damage.


THF/COR

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Culverin+1 (51 DMG)
Ammo: Cannon Shell (90 DMG)
Head: Rhee's headgear
Neck: Ugg pendant (I'm not sure if this can be activated without native mp, but I'll assume it can)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (51+90)*2*(1+.02+.08+.05+.07+.05+.01+.03+.03)*1.15 = 141*2*1.34*1.15 = 434 damage

QD will be used every 55 seconds. In 6 minutes it will be used 7.54 times, for a total of 3272 damage.

4041/3272 = 23.5% more damage done by COR.

There is definitely promise to Thief/Cor as a soloer with TH. That's the whole point. None of the other theorycraft as to how it could work in a party or an alliance is really too important. That is my humble opinion, at least. I mean you could do it... But I don't see why you would.
Slug accuracy is not utterly terrible if you stack shit tons of accuracy (Thf can get up to +120-130ish from gear alone). But the damage is definitely low. You'd have to have a reason to Slug instead of sa or ta WS. Such as not being asked not to SA (flail) and asked not to TA (it could tamper w/ the hate-line between multiple tanks).
Crappy slugs and crappy rolls. You can shoot and quick draw from a distance.. sure. But if a mob is dangerous to TP on (Ixion, Khimaira), you're probably better off just meleeing smarter, rather than shooting (knowing Ix's TP moves and using /nin; going /sam for khimmy and meleeing briefly right after TP moves).

Counter II
Idk anything about it being an upgraded trait. But my JP friend told me that Spharai's new Counter II was +10%. Don't know if any NA's have tested that yet. But of course he also tells me that all JP's believe the original Spharai's counter+ to have been tested and proven at 5%, while our wiki says 10%. :/
Spharhai really got hella buffed ;/. Kinda needed it though.

[Gergall]

The amount of times I've been asked to wield a thief knife for stupid reasons (such as ancient beastcoins) .. ugh.

No offense but if they asked you to come THF to help with drops, put the dagger on

[Shamaya]

Came thief for low man strategy; damage, hate control, co-tanking, feint, and timed accomplices >.> Well, each DD in the low-man group had special functions.

[Cream Soda]

ancient beast coins are awesome

[Enedin]

Treasure Hunter
If anyone's read into any of the TH testing, especially what Enedin has tested, you'd see that both TH & TH2 affect normal items. The best testing to date suggests that each TH increases drop rates by 50%. They stack together, uncompounded. So if your drop rate is 10% without TH, it'd be 15% with TH1 and if you have TH1+TH2 it'd be 20%. There's never been even a shred of evidence to suggest that one or the other affects only certain types of treasure. Nor of course anything to suggest that it's not so. When SE has been asked about TH (the question not distinguishing between 1&2), SE has simply said in commentaries that affects "anything droppable" including r/ex items, quest items, coffer keys..

Thinking about it now, I think the reason that they have the two abilities separated in the menu is so that all players know for sure that there is another level of TH at 45, above level 37. This would be so that Thf could maintain its place in groups as the honorable "TH whore." Otherwise, players that wouldn't know any better might just have someone sub thief instead.

Agree with all of this. The part in bold is half my testing, my other half of testing shows a +100% increase for TH1 and another +50% for TH2, but I cant discover what the difference is between the mobs that give 50/50 and the ones that give 100/50. Something like mob family, zone (outdoor/indoor?) maybe... Got more testing done, but I quit the game some time ago, so won't be continued. I'll post it seperately.

Anyway: as Shamaya said, I'm fairly sure that TH1 and TH2 enhance the exact same thing, SE just put it there to make THF useful (not let everyone who's subbing THF think they have the same TH). But yes, all evidence supports the theory that TH2 is just an upgrade of TH1.

And yes, TH1 and TH2 both give +50% drop rates at least. It's just that on some mobs TH1 gives +100%, and I don't know why.

[Miraun]

They aren't nerfed but what people are forgetting is that it resets the stacked refresh rate of diabolos's favor. So if you BP you'd be losing your extra refresh tics and you be back at 2 a tic til it built up again.

True, but after reaching maximum potency, it'll reach maximum potency at approximately twice the speed...

iirc, when I tested it when it first came out, it took about 90 seconds to reach max potency, but after I BPed, it was back to max potency after 45 seconds (Faster rate of growth, not higher starting point)

[Amok]

And yes, TH1 and TH2 both give +50% drop rates at least. It's just that on some mobs TH1 gives +100%, and I don't know why.

Ok, I see. You can ignore my question in the other thread XD

[Appie]

Anyone parsed Counter rates on Monk yet? I'd swear we got another +5 ninja'd in.

It's on my to do list after I'm done with my relic and have to cap guard again. Want to get a nice amount of tanking without Spharai and with it, to determine the increase from Spharai with counter II. Don't hold you're breath though, won't be before the next week's weekend that I'm skilling guard.

JP's had original Spharai at 5%? Yeah right, cross counters as relic? I don't think so. Does make me fear the second buff is actually 5% and JP's got it the wrong way around.

[Shamaya]

I don't know who did the NA's testing on Spharai, but knowing that Aurik existed makes it hard to believe the NA wiki is wrong. But who knowz.

[Ophannus]

I doubt TH1 and TH2 affect the same thing because they're two separate traits not different tiers of the same trait. One probably affects the chance a mob will drop an item by adding another drop slot, the other trait probably increases the X/256 chance of the item actually dropping. If they both did the same thing why are they listed separately on the trait menu unlike every other trait?

[Zag]

I don't know who did the NA's testing on Spharai, but knowing that Aurik existed makes it hard to believe the NA wiki is wrong. But who knowz.

cross counters have +5 counter on them. I doubt they would make the relic have the same amount of counter as the cross counters. Seeing spharai users for myself and seeing that they counter a hell of alot more then a cross counters MNK. It was established to be 10% and thats what it is.

If the new counter effect is +20% then hot damn thats insane combined with new counter traits coming up and the addition of perfect counter plus counterstance. Not to mention the DMG increase on the relic keeps going up on par with the other relics PLUS the h2h skill is rising. I predict SE nerfing h2h skill at 99 when SAMs start crying.

[Ophannus]

They might have to adjust or cap the h2h formula because at 99 Monks will have ~424 h2h skill assuming the same rate of skillups. That's gonna be killer on relic Monks. That's 83 DMG with 194 delay(not counting the new MA trait they'll get or the increased DMG on spharai from newer subsequent trials). But even at that, that's like dual wielding 200 delay Great Axes in each hand.

[Byrthnoth]

On one hand, yes. They'll be awesome, especially because additional martial arts traits will push them into the sub-180 delay/hand range where TP/second is increasing.

Monk base damage increase from H2H skill has always been countered by a relatively slow increase in weapon base damage. If everything continues to increase as it has been, Spharai is the least of our worries. Multi-proccing H2H will dominate even more once they get a lot of base damage from H2H skill. Base damage will be ~50 at 99 based on your skill estimation, and fSTR helps/hurts multi-proccing weapons more than Spharai.

D83 per 194 delay would require Bravura to have 208 base damage to keep up in a DoT sense.

Currently though, Spharai(80) + Monk base damage = D71 (34+~3+34) and 194 delay, right?
Then currently you'd expect Bravura to need 178 base damage to keep up. This doesn't even take into account kicks, fSTR, or any of the other things monk gets.

Still, Warrior is keeping up at the moment, as far as I can tell. So if we're keeping up now even though they have a massive DoT advantage over us, why crap ourselves because they're going to get slightly better?

[Tsuko_Asura]

I think the practical differences can mostly be attributed to the massive attack edge a Bravura would have over Spharai most of the time, what with being guaranteed Berserk and attack food at all times.

Fairly certain Spharai-MNK/WAR will shit all over a Bravura, though.

[Byrthnoth]

I think the practical differences can mostly be attributed to the massive attack edge a Bravura would have over Spharai most of the time, what with being guaranteed Berserk and attack food at all times.

Fairly certain Spharai-MNK/WAR will shit all over a Bravura, though.

It's the massive attack edge and difference in WS frequency that keeps it close right now. Still, Monk WS frequency will rise if they get more Martial Arts traits.

As far as Spharai vs. Bravura, I think it depends if WAR gets to blood tank too. Retaliation+Hasso is no joke, though there's a big difference between the amount of damage a Counterstanced relic Monk and a Berserked WAR take.

Monk getting more durable without shadows (Perfect Counter) should change the way the job is dealt with.