Mana wall good? bad?

[Batboy267]

Posted the following on the ffah forums... now i'll post it here to see blue gartr's response (somethings were altered when reposted here):

According from my experience and from some peoples testing it out from the wiki here is the data on mana wall:


*The effect of Mana Wall appears to be 100% damage transfer to MP.
**Reduces damage taken by 50%. (100 Damage taken takes 50 mp away instead of 100 hp)
***All forms of damage modifiers (PDT, Phalanx, Stoneskin, ect) are taken into account before mana wall effect's takes away mp.
*Because no HP damage is taken, this ability effectively prevents spell interruption from damage.
*If you get reduced to 0 mp because of damage taken from Mana Wall, Mana Wall wears off immediately.
*Damage will carry over to HP when MP is low enough.
*Mana Wall does not allow resting while you have a DOT on you even though you are not losing HP.
*While Mana Wall is active Sublimation's effect changes from -2 hp per tic to -1 mp per tic. (unconfirmed)
*Despite popular belief mana wall will NOT create an invincible like effect while manafont is active.

Keep in mind the unconfirmed status I put on some of these only becuase wiki had it too but i've used this skill many times and found all of these things to be true.

I say this skill is very powerful (more so then expected since 1hp = 0.5 mp). With this Black mages will live much more often without too much of a hindrance to there performance as well as have a new form of an anti interruption.

...but thats just what I think what is everyone elses opinion on this?

[Archain]

I didn't personally witness, but I heard via Ventrilo during a Proto-Ultima last night that it was allowing a BLM to survive multiple Citadel Busters with it up. A Citadel Buster later was performed with Stoneskin up as well and, when combined with Mana Wall, the Citadel Buster did not even break Stoneskin.

It sounded like it's outstanding in ensuring survivability, no idea what it does when the BLM is hit with an overkill spell. Most of what I've heard about it has been second hand.

[Red Demon Taoist]

Where exactly are BLMs doing all this dying that SE is apparently so concerned about?

Note to SE: They're not dead, they're just fucking resting. Constantly. It's boring.

[Hyan]

Note to SE: They're not dead, they're just fucking resting. Constantly. It's boring.

SE: okay here's convert for ya.

qq moar

[Khamsin]

Does stoneskin even absorb anything with Mana Wall up, or does it go straight to MP loss?

Does Manafont have any effect, essentially making you invincible, or not, since it doesn't really give you unlimited MP it just makes your spells free?

[Tahona]

mana wall, obviously so blm can survive meteor.

but seriously this looks like a unique ability and when used right can really save a blms ass

[Red Demon Taoist]

SE: okay here's convert for ya.

qq moar

I would have gone with a more "u mad?" angle, but you're finnish so... /back pat

My point was, BLM is pretty high on the survivability list. Seems ironic that they give BLM a spell that not only buffs their survivability but drains their mana?

[Batboy267]

Does stoneskin even absorb anything with Mana Wall up, or does it go straight to MP loss?

Does Manafont have any effect, essentially making you invincible, or not, since it doesn't really give you unlimited MP it just makes your spells free?

both of those have been debated by players.... ><.

Personaly: ss blocks before mana wall does. Manafont make mp cost of spells = 0 (does not make them invincible when mana wall is up).

[Istun GA's]

Love this ability D:. OT. Ive never had mp after mana wall and taking hits til it would hit 0. Other then that SS seems to absorb hits before mana wall takes effect. And have yet to see if -phys really helps or not since im always in idle gear when i pop this ja. And its a JA not a spell. cant remember who posted it as a spell but lulz.

[Niiro]

I'm wondering if taking MP damage while mana wall is up will cause hate loss as if you were being hit for HP damage normally.

[Dammerung]

Stoneskin, blink, etc. go first. Then your MP gets damaged. Then when you hit 0 MP the effect wears off and you get your face eaten.

If you get hit by an overflow ability such as EES from a NM in dynamis, your MP is killed and you take the remaining damage as HP.

[Reapz]

Very useful ability imo, been using it a bunch

[Narol]

Something to check: Does Mana Wall's 50% damage reduction stack with pdt? It'd be pretty ridiculous if it did, even multiplicatively (like having 50% pdt meant damage*0.5*0.5 = damage*0.25).

Edit like an hour later: Also, does Phalanx apply before or after the 50% reduction or not at all?

[SephYuyX]

Im confused, why are people thinking this is a bad spell?
It is not flawless.

Granted ive been using it a decent amount of times, it's a great ability to have in an oshit situation. However if you dont have the MP to back it up.. Say you only have 100mp left, a mob you were fighting resisted, it has 15% left, grav is off, your buffs are down, no zone in sight, 2hr is down, etc.. Thats a situation where if you dont time a bind or sleep just right, youre going to die.

Mana Wall does not prevent this death, itll only postpone it. Sure youll get hit for 0, but that mob is going to hit you near 200 dmg, emptying your MP pool, and your death next.

It may help you run away if a zone is near by, but chances are youre hurting more than helping turning the ja on at some points.

Im sure someone will find a way to abuse it, I dont really care about trying to abuse it, it's just a life saver now and then, and a fun new ability. I do look forward to some of the inventive ways to use it though.

[Iresire]

Something to check: Does Mana Wall's 50% damage reduction stack with pdt? It'd be pretty ridiculous if it did, even multiplicatively (like having 50% pdt meant damage*0.5*0.5 = damage*0.25).

Edit like an hour later: Also, does Phalanx apply before or after the 50% reduction or not at all?

I just finished playing with a cactuar. While I was doing this, I would type /echo <mp> into the console as 1000 needles was charging and right after it landed.

First test: Nothing but earth staff.

http://imgur.com/eD7ZO.png

Right before 1000 needles: 878 mp
Right after 1000 needles: 478 mp

Edit: Difference is 400 mp; it seems that earth staff is applied before the 50% damage reduction.

Second test: Nothing but Kirin's Pole + Phalanx. I used Kirin's Pole because I was solo and had to feed it TP somehow. (I didn't trust that I could activate Mana Wall during 1000 Needles activation.) My enhancing skill is capped at 215 skill, so that should be 20 damage absorption.

http://imgur.com/DeNPb.png

Right before 1000 needles: 641 mp
Right after 1000 needles: 151 mp

Difference is 490. This matches (1000 - 20)*0.5. So, it looks like Phalanx is applied before the 50% damage reduction.

Third test: Kirin's Pole + Low MP.

http://imgur.com/ARol3.png

Right before 1000 needles: 775 hp & 204 mp
Right after 1000 needles: 479 hp & 0 mp
So, the damage gets hit with the 50% reduction from Mana Wall to 500 damage. I am short 296 MP, so that is overflowed into HP.

[Pandorablue]

A practical use I can think of for it is popping it right before using convert, in case a mob decides to turn on you right at that second. I can't tell you how many lolvertdeaths I've seen RDMs do over the years.

[SephYuyX]

Speaking of which, I havent heard anyone talk about /RDM convert yet, I assume it is unchanged and works like RDM/?

[Onorgul]

I just finished playing with a cactuar. While I was doing this, I would type /echo <mp> into the console as 1000 needles was charging and right after it landed.

First test: Nothing but earth staff.
Right before 1000 needles: 878 mp
Right after 1000 needles: 478 mp

It's pretty clear that earth staff doesn't reduce any further damage.

What? 878 - 478 is 400. If Mana Wall is a 50% reduction, you should have lost 500 MP from 1000 Needles. Losing 400 implies that 1000 Needles was reduced to 800 (20% Physical Damage Reduction from Earth Staff), THEN halved.

[Pantimic]

Would popping it before convert cause you to lose mp instead of hp? Since you lose hp to gain mp in the case of convert, popping the ja right before converting might fuck it up. Tests!

[Iresire]

What? 878 - 478 is 400. If Mana Wall is a 50% reduction, you should have lost 500 MP from 1000 Needles. Losing 400 implies that 1000 Needles was reduced to 800 (20% Physical Damage Reduction from Earth Staff), THEN halved.

Oops, you're right.