Mana wall good? bad?

[SephYuyX]

What?

[tymora]

I use this for....Manafont + Manawall + ga3. Great for those in-a-pinch situations.
I could see a group of blms taking down a massive dynamis link with this, just as an example.

Anyway it saved my ass enough times for it to be a +++JA.

[Spider-Dan]

One thing to test though would be to see if manafont stacks with PDT, phalanx, etc.

Another thing to test would be to see if anyone can read this entire thread (all 2 1/4 pages of it!) before posting, since the same already-answered questions keep popping up over and over.

hay guyz is manawall+manafont super invincible? plz respond quick im fighting ultima in 20min

[SephYuyX]

Another thing to test would be to see if anyone can read this entire thread (all 2 1/4 pages of it!) before posting, since the same already-answered questions keep popping up over and over.

hay guyz is manawall+manafont super invincible? plz respond quick im fighting ultima in 20min

You pretty much missed what I said didnt you, learn to read.

[Batboy267]

One thing to test though would be to see if manafont stacks with PDT, phalanx, etc. When I was originally testing MW I saw that when MF was active it further reduced the MP reduction; instead of 50%, I saw maybe about 20~30% Though I never tested that thoroughly.

Ok i've tryed it again and no i don't see what your talking about manafont doesn't seem to effect mana wall abilty at all. what you saw must have only been PDT and phalanx effects going off.

[SephYuyX]

Hm, Ive no idea why I saw such a drastic reduction in MP taken, I didnt have any other spells up, but I did have my usual idle set on as always. Shrug, guess the mob crit'd me a few times before I popped MF.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding something, but given how Mana Wall apparently seems to work, I'd say it might be technically more accurate to think of it as simply taking 1MP for every 2HP that would normally be taken, rather than saying that the ability itself is giving you a 50% damage reduction effect.

The fact that Stoneskin and Phalanx take effect before the 50% conversion, indicates that it's not actually giving you 50% damage reduction, because if it was, your Stoneskin would last twice as long, and the Phalanx would take effect after the damage reduction (like it does with Earth Staff).

Because it only takes half of the MP that it would take in HP, it effectively looks like -50% damage taken, but only for the portion of the damage that is actually absorbed by the MP.

If that made any sense...

That would be an effective way of looking at it outside of the final shot you take before running out of MP. If you look over at the 4th 1000 Needles screenshot, he takes the hit with 207MP left. If it was a straight 1:2 damage ratio, he would have taken 204MP damage, effectively 408HP damage, then the remaining 592 damage would have spiled over into his HP. Instead, he only takes 296 damage to his HP, so we can say that it's a 1:1 ratio with a -50% damage taken modifier. A small technicality, but it's probably 'more correct' to state it this way.

Edit: fixed numbers to match screenshot. Said 207 instead of 204.

[Batboy267]

I've done some tests on ff11ah on what happens when the af3 feet are used with mana wall.

[Batboy267]

I'll post the finding here as well.

Ok.... using the same testing method as Iresire here are the numbers I got:

Test #1
Confirmation

Before I did anything I wanted to confirm the base knowledge of Mana Wall: The 2hp = 1mp convertion.

To do this I did not use the Terra's staff nor the goetia's sabots +1 for this test.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...y267/Test1.jpg

Mp before 1000 Needles: 699
Mp After 1000 Needles: 199
Total Mp Lost: 500

As you can clearly see the 2hp = 1mp convertion is true

Test #2
The Goetia's sabots

Same as Test number 1 only differnce is that I have the feet in question equiped now:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...y267/Test2.jpg

Mp before 1000 Needles: 891
Mp after 1000 Needles: 459
Total Mp lost: 432

As you can see under the sabots I took 68 less damage (Mp) from the attack.

Test #3
Goetia + Terra = ?

Now lets see what happens when -20% Damage reduction is added:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...y267/Test3.jpg

Mp before 1000 Needles: 869
Mp after 1000 Needles: 509
Total Mp lost: 360

So with the sabots and the Terra staff I took 140 less mp loss then I would have without them.

Keep in mind so far I've only done test numbers 2 and 3 once. Im gonna do test number 2 a few more times to see weather or not the mp loss will change.

[Classikmage]

I've done some tests on ff11ah on what happens when the af3 feet are used with mana wall.

How much of a % increase would that SS with just the BLM AF3+1 feet equal out to? Seem like a pretty decent increase.

[Byrthnoth]

I recommend repeating your second test a few times. I'd expect that to come back as 450 MP at some point.

[Batboy267]

I just did test #2 two more times:

Mp before 1000 Needles: 828
Mp after 1000 Needles: 396
Total Mp lost: 432

&

Mp before 1000 Needles: 916
Mp after 1000 Needles: 484
Total Mp lost: 432

It seems the effect that the feet gives is consistant.

[Byrthnoth]

Weird, Kuno got 450 doing what I think was your Test 2. Perhaps it is proportional to Defense or MDB or something?

1000*.5 = 500 predicted and observed with just Mana Wall (432 observed with Goetia Sabots +1)
1000*.5*.8 = 400 predicted with Earth Staff and Mana Wall (360 observed with Goetia Sabots +1)

[Not Kuno]

I'll go test it some more, only did it once.

[Not Kuno]

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y38.../1kneedles.png

No earth staff, phalanx, etc

[Byrthnoth]

So, here's the story:

432 = 4% PDT + Goetia Sabots+1 + Manawall
1000*.45*.76 = 342 Wrryyyy??
1000*.45*.8 = 360 onice.

Are you using a 4% PDT ASA legs or something, Batboy? Please check your gear, because it looks like you didn't have it on during the Terra's test or initial Manawall but do have it on during your Test 2s.

[Not Kuno]

Went from 848 MP to 348 MP when I had the +1 shoes on at start, but took them off when it did 1k needles.

[Batboy267]

oh crap... totaly forgot all about my ASA legs.... now all of my tests could be messed up >< sorry guys.

[Byrthnoth]

Went from 848 MP to 348 MP when I had the +1 shoes on at start, but took them off when it did 1k needles.

I'm confused by this, but I'm also convinced that Goetia Sabots change the 50MP/100HP to 45MP/100HP so it's all good!

Hooray for re-discovering what we thought we knew a week ago!

[Not Kuno]

I'm confused by this, but I'm also convinced that Goetia Sabots change the 50MP/100HP to 45MP/100HP so it's all good!

Hooray for re-discovering what we thought we knew a week ago!

I mean I hit Mana Wall with the shoes on, but took them off afterwards. Gonna test it works the other way around in a few min when it comes up again.