Proposing Something to SE, Need Help

[Thorny]

So if you are sitting on JAs and TP and your PT doesn't need any cures. 5 DDs and DNC. You are telling me as the dnc you shouldn't thorw out some WS and SC for extra dmg?

If you are in that situation, WSing is the right choice. However, if you're in that situation, your party dynamic is wrong. There is no practical situation where you have enough extra tp to WS while keeping your party healed. 5 DD + DNC is absolutely abysmal to begin with, but if you expect me to believe you can keep 5 DD using either hasso or counterstance and ignoring defensive abilities alive while WSing and skillchain, you are full of fucking shit. I don't care what your gimpshit girlfriend thinks is cool, DNC DD is not practical.

I suppose with a RDM that has everyone hasted, refreshed and cured, the mob is diaed/slowed/para and you are sitting on MP with vert up. You shouldn't Nuke either right?

Of course you should, but that's hardly the same. RDM has limits to healing power, one RDM doesn't guarantee melee can fulltime hasso/etc. Conversely, if stopping your nukes allowed melee to /sam and hasso instead of /nin and utsu.. wouldn't you stop nuking?

Yes, however not without gimping my healing and support so point is moot XP

I see what you mean, however in a party situation the red mage is probably lfp on red mage because they want to exp...on red mage. Asking them to change jobs because you want to do their job for them is kind of, eh?

In end game, ls, alliance etc etc I totally get what you mean though, and wholeheartedly agree. I entirely focus on spamming my waltzes and debuffs when doing end game, I don't have time to weaponskill.

But the discussion is on a party. There is the hasso/counterstance etc, so I'll ask about that in future parties, "Guys go nuts I can keep us alive" etc etc

The premise of every crutched argument you've made is that you have poor choice of what goes on. Optimize your gear, change your attitude so you're more tolerable, join a good linkshell, and start doing shit with them. Merits too, who does pickups these days?

[isladar]

Asking the wrong question, I don't think anyone will ever truly be done yelling at him.

Thorny hasn't had the chance to get FITE ME math-mad in a few weeks, I'm just trying to be considerate.

[urat]

If the party is fine and the dnc is dding then the party should replace the dnc with a dd.

DNCs are awesome for their high healing potential and instant cures. There is nothing wrong with optimizing your DOT as long as it doesn't compromise your healing potential, but keeping up TP should be your primary concern.

If you are getting so much more TP than you're spending that you want to WS more frequently than sekka, change daggers to lower tp gain/feed and up your DPS. For instance, Acc/dex dagger and OA2-3 could become STP80 dagger and acc/dex dagger. Switch from
Sushi to pizza, etc. As long as your TP keeps up with the maximum extent of your duties, there is no reason not to.

Also though, with 5 finishing moves, meditate, no foot rise, and a multi-hit dagger, you should be able to safely WS more often than sekka anyway.

You people keep saying multi hit daggers like they're easy to get. You'd be surprised how hard it is to get the juiced up merc kris (best offhand dagger for dnc so far)

Yeah I know its fun to think about but realistically most dancer's have enough problems getting a joytoy, let alone a dagger that requires you to kill several thousand EP+ mobs, most of which are giant dicks to hunt down and kill. I have yet to see a single person with parazonium.

Im about 2/3 done mine at the moment, but its a huge dick of a dagger to get and I can't realistically add it into a postulated build, may as well start postulating about the average sam's dd capabilities if they all have masamunes.

[isladar]

So you're saying SE should fix it so you don't suck?

[Darkyrm]

DNC had great potential before this update, with this update buffs, new gear & magians weapons they have incredible potential IMO, the only problem with the job is that people have a lot of problems thinking how to fit a DNC in partys but aside from that its an incredible solo job right now.

My DNC is siting at 66 because its hard to get partys but everyday i think about trying to level it to 80 because I find that I would enjoy it so much with all the candy thats allready there if you manage to lvl/merit/gear it well.

If I were to tweak something it would be a stance to be able to use steps in a different way, in a merit party its imposible to get more than 1 step each mob so their effect is very weak but if there was a way to be able to get something like a direct lvl3 step but with a higher TP cost would sort my main concern about DNC in merits.

[Thorny]

Thorny hasn't had the chance to get FITE ME math-mad in a few weeks, I'm just trying to be considerate.

ilu

You people keep saying multi hit daggers like they're easy to get. You'd be surprised how hard it is to get the juiced up merc kris (best offhand dagger for dnc so far)

Yeah I know its fun to think about but realistically most dancer's have enough problems getting a joytoy, let alone a dagger that requires you to kill several thousand EP+ mobs, most of which are giant dicks to hunt down and kill. I have yet to see a single person with parazonium.

Im about 2/3 done mine at the moment, but its a huge dick of a dagger to get and I can't realistically add it into a postulated build, may as well start postulating about the average sam's dd capabilities if they all have masamunes.

A few years ago, maybe. If, in 2010, getting a few trashmobs done for your best weapon is that ridiculous then MMOs aren't for you. Quit now and play console games, they're far less time consuming. I used Athame for my math anyway, which is even easier to get.

[Dooom]

I'm sorry, but this is BG. Crying that Joytoy is "hard to get" does you zero favors. Killing EP mobs is not hard, it's just bloody annoying.

edit - and fwiw, I'm just carrying on with Athame, I was part-way done before the update and quite frankly, camping Black Triple Stars again can choke on a bag of dicks. It's still a hax as fuck dagger for dnc even if you take the easier OAT route.

[Byrthnoth]

I am working on one as well at the moment. I can't even wear it on dnc, everything so far for my acc dakini and 2-3 dagger have been done at my leisure on brd/nin. I have gotten close to 40k xp so far from the oat quests and I am only ~2/3 done as well.

I am not saying being a good dancer
Is easy, or that gimp dancers have a use. I am saying that the job already has a very potent use and it is silly to pretend any failing of the job to get invites is SE's responsibility. Heck, my DNC has been 73 for 3 weeks. You think I don't want to up our invite rates?

It is just that DNC isn't a job you can halfass. You're either a great DNC that can main heal and sustain a Hassoing party, or you're essentially a waste of a party slot.

[Phraust]

Hey guys I think Sam is a really weak healer, I think that they should get access to Cure V and Cure VI, but since they are really deficient in MP, they should get to use those spells for no MP...

I swear... People just want every job to cure cancer with one hand and end worlds with the other...

If you want a homogenized 2 button game play WoW.

[Warudo Ecksu]

I needed a good laugh before work

[urat]

ilu


A few years ago, maybe. If, in 2010, getting a few trashmobs done for your best weapon is that ridiculous then MMOs aren't for you. Quit now and play console games, they're far less time consuming. I used Athame for my math anyway, which is even easier to get.

Im not saying I don't like it, working on my magian trials is a great way to spend time when Im bored and waiting for an ls event thats an hour away, etc etc.

What I'm saying is the highest tier of OAT dagger is still rather time consuming to obtain, to the point trying to theorize about its capabilities TP/M wise for the average dancer is as valid as theorizing DD capabilities of a domaru sam with masamune.

Its a nice dagger, time consuming to get, but not easy enough to obtain that one can theorize about the job as a whole using it in the example of tp build. Id go for azoth main hand joytoy offhand to be a more accurate sample of the average dancer. I have seen like, 2 dancer's tops since magian trails came out with athame, and no one with parazonium.

Weapon is so rare and time consuming to obtain, theorizing about its capabilities for the job as a whole using said dagger is a bit unfair, if you understand what I mean.

Also I never said joytoy is hard to get, I said most dancers have enough trouble getting joytoy let alone full athame, so you're supporting my claim I guess.

Parazonium imo is easier to pull off than full athame anyways, and is far superior for dancer, entire attack round extra and whatnot. ANY dancer should be able to solo EPs, it'll take 6 months or so to solo, but any dancer in the game should have 0 issue getting it. But few have the necessary time to actually do it XP

[Ksandra]

So this is basically another thread where urat bitches about how he sucks at FFXI and wants to blame SE for it?

I am wondering why we still let him post...

[urat]

So this is basically another thread where urat bitches about how he sucks at FFXI and wants to blame SE for it?

I am wondering why we still let him post...

Naw Im bitching that SE gave us DD shit when we're not a DD class, but not enough DD shit to make us a DD class.

Get it straight XP

[Dooom]

Also I never said joytoy is hard to get, I said most dancers have enough trouble getting joytoy let alone full athame, so you're supporting my claim I guess.

What the hell? No, I'm disagreeing very strongly. You're basically saying "Thorny's standards are too high", but my view is like what was said earlier - you can't half-ass dancer. If you're not using a multihit weapon of some kind properly, you're half-assing it.

So this is basically another thread where urat bitches about how he sucks at FFXI and wants to blame SE for it?

Looks that way to me!

[urat]

What the hell? No, I'm disagreeing very strongly. You're basically saying "Thorny's standards are too high", but my view is like what was said earlier - you can't half-ass dancer. If you're not using a multihit weapon of some kind properly, you're half-assing it.

Er, I think we're just having a miscommunication here somewhere.

I was talking about multi hit daggers, the magian ones, not joytoy when I stated that multi hit daggers are hard to obtain.

I think you misinterpreted that as me saying joytoy is hard to obtain? No not at all joytoy is stupid easy, in fact when I said "Dancers have hard enough time getting a joytoy" I was implying that joytoy is easy enough to obtain and most dancer's can't even get that, let alone an athame which is far harder and much more time consuming.

However joytoy isn't always the best for dancer anyways, 25% double hits from it, 12.5% when saber dance is up, may not always be best trade off for our gimp sword skill.

If you have full sword merits but none in dagger go for it, I believe its around the 5 merits greater in sword + suppa that joytoy starts to be a better offhand than other high TPM daggers like cinqueda and sleight kukri?

I worked it out once, but Im too lazy to do it again >.<

[Phraust]

Is Dancer your only job?

[Shenrien]

probably, that's how he solos AV and PW.

[urat]

Is Dancer your only job?

72 bard, got tired of being told my job sucks and wasn't needed in meripos so I just leveled bard up with the intention of using it to get merits.

Gave up on it for now while I try to get dancer to 80, though I do use bard now and then for ls stuff. But with the addition of abyssea exp I prolly dont need to worry about merits anymore.

[Cairthenn]

I am wondering why we still let him post...

This here travesty. Fix it.

Urat, this topic is a joke. Nothing more to it.

[Thorny]

However joytoy isn't always the best for dancer anyways, 25% double hits from it, 12.5% when saber dance is up, may not always be best trade off for our gimp sword skill.

How the fuck is it only 25% double hits?

If you have full sword merits but none in dagger go for it, I believe its around the 5 merits greater in sword + suppa that joytoy starts to be a better offhand than other high TPM daggers like cinqueda and sleight kukri?

It depends on your accuracy. At 80, doing dynamis/ein/etc, you have so much overkill it's disgusting. Obviously best is Athame(high dmg)/Parazonium, but who's gonna do that..

You haven't raised a single interesting point, you're just wasting the time of people better than yourself as we try to get it through your thick skull that you're doing it wrong.