Random Question Thread XII: Don't Believe Advanced's Lies

[Nightfyre]

Assuming DW IV, Suppa, Charis Necklace (at 5%):

Auric/Parazonium: (201+211)*0.55/2=113.3 delay per hand for 4.4 TP/hit and 139.8 TP/min before accounting for OAT DA STP etc

Kila/Parazonium: (190+211)*0.6=120.3 delay per hand for 4.5 TP/hit and 134.66 TP/min

[Thorny]

So Thorny after I read all the stuff about MNK zerging is superior to DRK zerging I started to think do you ever considered DNC as job for zerg fights?
If the new neck is 5% DW a DNC who would reach 25%haste and 2.0 avg pdif would make about 20k dmg in 1 min w/o WSing.

It's a given that you would bring at least one DNC for the MNKs.

MNK: 348 delay, 2 hits, dmg:66 with capped fstr

At the same 2.0 average pdif, you're getting 287.64 damage per attack round. Given that you have capped gear haste, 43.3 magic, 10% samba you're looking at 78.3% haste. 348 * .217 = 75.516 delay per round, or 1.25 sec per attack. 60 / 1.25 = 48 rounds of 287.64 damage each or 13,806 damage.

DNC: 39, 201 and 33, 211, wrank 4 and 3, d:51 and d:44

saber dance is ~50% DA, parazonium is ~40%, resulting in 55% DA on mainhand and 73% in offhand.. 79 damage in mainhand and 76 in offhand

412 * .6 = 247.2 delay * .217 = 53 delay, 68 rounds in a minute

68 rounds of 310 damage is 21,080

First impression is that it'd be very nice. However, it takes away from the original reasons for using MNK: reliability and versatility. If the new neckpiece is indeed 5%, DNC's damage is going to be very helpful on hybrid zergs(dynamis lord, cop dynamis, and anything in abyssea that you'd need both a tp burn party and zerg setup for). I think the most efficient setup will remain just one DNC per party, however, as MNK's ability to ride counterstance as well as vastly superior attack/accuracy under normal conditions is indispensible for dyna/ein/farms.

[Clerix]

Is there a way to set up spellcast to force latent before each BRD song?

Basically, I need my spellcast to do this: swap to -hp gear, swap to fastcast/minstrel's ring, start casting, swap to +skill gear. I used to have a spellcast for BLM that always triggered 77%HP for latent before each nuke, but I forgot how i wrote it.

[rog]

You could, but you'd need to add a cast delay, so it's more effective to just force latent manually. For blm you don't need to equip nuke gear before you start casting, so it works fine to just precast -hp gear, then switch to nuke gear midcast, but you can't do that for brd, because minstrel's in checked when you start casting.

If you really want to, you'd want to set a cast delay, and use a command to switch to -hp set, then precast your fc set, and skill for midcast.



err, unless your -hp set doesn't include ring/body/other fc slots, then just put your ring/fc gear in your -hp set, put that on precast, and switch to skill midcast.

[Clerix]

Well I'm currently fastcasting in teal set right now since I don't have sha'ir manteel or yigit gomlek. Even so, Teal is -10% and Yigit Gomlek is -10%.. I'll just have to force mantually.

[Priran]

MNK: 348 delay, 2 hits, dmg:66

What weapon is this supposed to be, and wouldn't Footwork with Ursine be better anyway?

[Amok]

Can Y/G/K crit naturally? I'm not sure if I can attribute the spikes I'm seeing to DA or Crits or both.

[Fereydoon]

You can get mythic weapon titles before beginning the quest, yes? I assume it's just that you've had to have the title at some point in the past and you're good.

[chazzyphizzle]

Can Y/G/K crit naturally? I'm not sure if I can attribute the spikes I'm seeing to DA or Crits or both.

DAs only, been discussed to death. Watch your tp return, it tells stories.

[rog]

Can Y/G/K crit naturally? I'm not sure if I can attribute the spikes I'm seeing to DA or Crits or both.

No...

[rog]

You can get mythic weapon titles before beginning the quest, yes? I assume it's just that you've had to have the title at some point in the past and you're good.

Yes.

[Thorny]

What weapon is this supposed to be, and wouldn't Footwork with Ursine be better anyway?

it's destroyers, suggest another weapon or do the math yourself for it if you want

it was just a quick damage sketch(not a serious comparison) because his numbers seemed really high at first, but they're right.. a more accurate comparison would include WS and crits and quite a bit of other shit anyway

[Atoreis]

It's a given that you would bring at least one DNC for the MNKs.

MNK: 348 delay, 2 hits, dmg:66 with capped fstr

At the same 2.0 average pdif, you're getting 287.64 damage per attack round. Given that you have capped gear haste, 43.3 magic, 10% samba you're looking at 78.3% haste. 348 * .217 = 75.516 delay per round, or 1.25 sec per attack. 60 / 1.25 = 48 rounds of 287.64 damage each or 13,806 damage.

DNC: 39, 201 and 33, 211, wrank 4 and 3, d:51 and d:44

saber dance is ~50% DA, parazonium is ~40%, resulting in 55% DA on mainhand and 73% in offhand.. 79 damage in mainhand and 76 in offhand

412 * .6 = 247.2 delay * .217 = 53 delay, 68 rounds in a minute

68 rounds of 310 damage is 21,080

First impression is that it'd be very nice. However, it takes away from the original reasons for using MNK: reliability and versatility. If the new neckpiece is indeed 5%, DNC's damage is going to be very helpful on hybrid zergs(dynamis lord, cop dynamis, and anything in abyssea that you'd need both a tp burn party and zerg setup for). I think the most efficient setup will remain just one DNC per party, however, as MNK's ability to ride counterstance as well as vastly superior attack/accuracy under normal conditions is indispensible for dyna/ein/farms.

First of all parazonium isnt best choise even fusetto is better (and much easier to make) or any Kila (str, att would be obvious choise if faint is on )
parazonium was 76 final dmg when Fusetto is d:49*1.55=76 also but daley is 186 not 211 and Kila is d:50*1.55=77,5 and daley os 190 so both are much better. Now you assumed daley *0.6 that would be if neck piece wouldnt be 5% and total dw would be 40%. If neck is 5% then DW is 45% on DNC(suppa,neck,auric). Last thing, idk how much vit has those zergable mobs but probably to high to dnc make a cap on fstr as his gear for haste would be:

Kila+Auric 6str
Thew 2str
Walahra 5haste
Charis
Suppa
Brutal
Rapparee 4haste
Dusk 3haste
Rajas 5str
Flame? 5str
Cuchulain? 4str
V belt 6haste
Aurore 3 haste
Dusk+1 3 haste

Thats 24% haste and +22str a little to less to hit the cap on something stronger I think. Would be probably safe to assume fstr6 maybe.

For 25% haste you need Ocelot trousers or dusk+1 hands or bullwhip belt (trousers would be best)

So math for fstr6 and kila and dw 45% would be:

Auric d:39+6, Kila d:38+6 89*1.55=276
(190+201)*0.55*0.217=~47 for ~77rounds in minute
Total dmg 21.252 I know its almost the same but this math is more realistic unless I missed some other way to cap fSTR on DNC.

Also lvl 80 DNC Galka 1367 HP naked and Taru MNK 1347 ?
So if Dnc wont be oneshotted he can immidiately pull off 720 cure and another one in 17 sec so its also pretty reliabe. In Abbysea with 30% hp buff that would be even easier.

Now for summing up I just want to tell I'm very happy from your math and forecast about future zerging in which mnk would be strongly involved. why? becouse I'm Career MNK who 12h ago got drop on turtle after about 2years of doing salvage and I'm also a Galka with HP merits and currently lvling DNC. Yeah all that makes me happy :D


EDIT: I went to take a shower and I got enlightened a little. If we talking about DNC zerging so could have about 4 DNCs in one pt so after some massive AOE that wont oneshot them they all could pull off divine Waltz II curing whole pt for 1600HP thats pretty reliabel also ^^

[Thorny]

stuff

Honestly, there's a limit to how much anyone will put up with as far as magians go. I don't know anyone who has magian weapons for each of their jobs, much less multiples for situations as isolated as DNC zerg. The high damage occ. atks twice parazonium is the best damage in normal play, while occ. atks 3x is the best tp gain. I think it's fair to assume that most 'top-tier' DNCs will get themselves an auric dagger and a Parazonium.. but how much further are people willing to take it? It's like Neosutra's old 2STR, 2DEX, 2AGI dakini spam... it's not realistic for most players. The timesink is terrible and it's not very fun, especially if weather doesn't want to cooperate.

Now for summing up I just want to tell I'm very happy from your math and forecast about future zerging in which mnk would be strongly involved. why? becouse I'm Career MNK who 12h ago got drop on turtle after about 2years of doing salvage and I'm also a Galka with HP merits and currently lvling DNC. Yeah all that makes me happy :D

Grats on your haramaki :C turtle is a whore

EDIT: I went to take a shower and I got enlightened a little. If we talking about DNC zerging so could have about 4 DNCs in one pt so after some massive AOE that wont oneshot them they all could pull off divine Waltz II curing whole pt for 1600HP thats pretty reliabel also ^^

Obviously the discussion was between DNC MNKx4 COR and DNCx5 COR, for idealism. Your brd rotates soul voice. If you're going to argue for 5x DNC, it'd need to be an isolated zerg. Those, well, don't really exist any more. Baha2 is about using the least 2hrs possible, strong melee only need one SV and one chainstun. DL and CoP Dyna are both preceeded by the event itself, in which case I don't think it's hard to understand why whoring MNKs will beat out whoring DNCs. King Vinegaroon is pretty harmless either way, but the nature of the mob implies doing it with the least possible people. Again, this favors MNK. Alternatively, it can even be 6manned nonzerg with MNK tanks. Vrtra? Massive HP pool, massive level correction, it's pretty hit or miss as a fight and probably will favor DRKs due solely to fight speed and charm being instant. Kirin? Same as bahamut, limitting 2hrs used for multiples.

What zerg fights will surface in the future is hard to say, but it seems the one thing that's pretty easy to observe is that souleater damage is dropping hard and mercurial kris/ridill/etc zerg is dead. Kraken is on it's way out.

[Byrthnoth]

Do you get Haste Samba effect if you're using an Additional Effect main hand with a non-add effect offhand? IE, are people with "Weakens Defense" daggers screwing themselves?

If this has not been tested, how would someone on PS2 test it?

[Atoreis]

Honestly, there's a limit to how much anyone will put up with as far as magians go. I don't know anyone who has magian weapons for each of their jobs, much less multiples for situations as isolated as DNC zerg. The high damage occ. atks twice parazonium is the best damage in normal play, while occ. atks 3x is the best tp gain. I think it's fair to assume that most 'top-tier' DNCs will get themselves an auric dagger and a Parazonium.. but how much further are people willing to take it? It's like Neosutra's old 2STR, 2DEX, 2AGI dakini spam... it's not realistic for most players. The timesink is terrible and it's not very fun, especially if weather doesn't want to cooperate.

Thats why suggested 2 most common dagger that dnc will do. Kila with STR and Fusetto that you can easily make in 2-3 days on dnc 80 (dnc can realy spam WSes and fusetto is all about spamming WS and as last 800 WS can be done on w/e You can just go to abbysea exp 2 times and done it). I dont think most DNC will only do OAT simply becouse it will take a lot of time and there will do someting faster to have dagger to play and that will be kila str or kila dex or fusetto. Also from all my various math I done sTP +8 Fusetto is realy marginaly behind OAT in tp gain and dps w/o Saber and on pair with TP gain and beats oat on dps with saber up. So realy most lazy DNC will do Fusetto>Kila>Oat and Fusetto wins for zerg scenerio so I still think DNCs could be as good as MNKs tho i understand your argument that its easier to find avg MNK that can handle zerg then pro DNC.

[Diddy Kong]

For someone with just MNK leveled, what would be a second job to take up?

[Darkmagi]

Depends on what your ls needs, but definitely a support job or BLM IMO. RDM, BRD, COR, BLM, WHM, or DNC I suppose.

[Diddy Kong]

Depends on what your ls needs, but definitely a support job or BLM IMO. RDM, BRD, COR, BLM, WHM, or DNC I suppose.

I don't have a linkshell.

[Darkmagi]

Well I don't know what to say then. RDM is good to have if you like soloing and useful for any endgame-ish events you might do. Otherwise just level something you enjoy if you're not leveling a job for an LS.