FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread IV: I got beta inv but my 5 year old PC can't run it

[Jinko]

nevermind

[BlackheartX]

The only system that seems likely is more %based drops from NM ect...
For example Douchebagalowdropingston spawns you kill him and get a chance to roll your dice towards his 1% margin and if the stars align you'll reach the loot margin and he'll drop Aspbreakerninethousand.

(As far as how loot is concerned not the NM system itself)

[Cooleko]

You're kind of an asshole, aren't you? ...
I'm not blind. ...
it's already commonly implemented in many MMOs. ...
To say there's no solution - that is illogical. ...
there are a variety of other ways it could be implemented ...
So don't tell me I'm not a logical person when you respond with "It's impossible!" ...

the whole fucking company could have a ticker on it ...

You are so angry it is refreshing. I knew you were not a logical thinker.
So, only a single person gets this effect or multiple?

If you chose a single person have the effect then there is not effect for the group and it is pointless because the group could still go 0/100 if a person doesnt claim/kill/enter everytime (which is what you are wanting to prevent).

Now, If you have a more intricate formula where everyone in the group builds this value and it resets when the item drops. Then large groups are going to rotate smaller groups of people and manipulate it.

I understand it is hard for you, but unless it is tied to only a single person (which is unfair for a group) you cannot use this strategy. People will optimize and take advantage of anything else.

I hate to use actual examples, but the two most exploited in FFXI were:

Having all but one ra/ex drops from an NM forced the drop you wanted. (You understand how this was manipulated right? If not I can detail it for you)

And ODIN, with his feathers. (groups optimized the feather rotation to eliminate the one climb per odin and turned it into several climbs with (one run between odins)).

People will find a way to take advantage of group drop rates if they exist.

[BlackheartX]

Why not have NMs in game? Just put a variety in game for people who don't want to camp. Camping NM's should be a choice if your friends are not online or you can't get some ppl to go run an instanced NM for a chance at gear. NM's are fun for people who don't go fuckcrazy about them and camp them for days on end flipping a shit when it doesn't spawn, drop, or they don't win claim. There should be a variety and a method for all types to gain gear not just instanced areas. Hell I have had times when playing WoW I wish I could acquire gear from a boss via another method then just farming the instance over and over, even if that meant trying to farm a random spawn, or collecting a bunch of tokens to buy the piece.



I think you're missing what he's saying, or i'm not understanding it myself. From what I can understand he's talking about having an internal clicker on your character, each time you kill a boss it clicks up increasing the total drop chance by 1% for that character. That would not work if it added up everyone's clicker % because yeah, ppl could abuse the shit out of that. Instead have it based off the person who delivers the killing blow, or a random character, or have it based off the first person to zone into the instance, etc etc. There are workarounds for something like that, but i'm on the fence about it. While I hate when bosses don't drop shit for me, I don't think running something 70 times should almost give you a drop unless that something is on a week lockout...then yes this method would be great. MMO's with Korean shit drop rates %'s are annoying, even if the drop % is only shit on a certain item...that just happens to be a weapon or something 10 other classes can use.

Some people like random chance as in "this normal mob I killed dropped something nice" vs random luck I.E. "I claimed some NM that spawned in my face that dropped something nice". Mixing the two is going to be a delicate balance if gear grinding options are to be equal and not have one option be inferior. Rarity (purely IMO) or equality in the drop rate is going to be a major determining factor of the success of a multiple options design.

(Why would I farm Kindred Seals x60 for a month to do a KSNM with .5% drop rate, when I can bot something for 2hrs with the same item at a 25% drop rate)

[Ramsey]

So, only a single person gets this effect or multiple?

I outlined it in plain English, how it would work, don't ask stupid rhetorical questions.

I've long since given up being angry at people for being ignorant or dim-witted, I don't particularly enjoy people masquerading their pessimism caused by incompetence at solving an issue themselves, and making statements like "This is impossible" and "If you think it's possible, you're illogical."

Simply because you can't personally see a way to solve it does not make it impossible. Because you can't comprehend words, I'll make you a pretty chart, so look forward to that.

[Kawfee]

Talking about how to solve a problem in loot distribution/HNM design is pretty pointless anyway (although marginally interesting at a "wouldn't it be cool..." level), last time I checked none of us are either:
1. An SE developer, nor
2. Someone SE gives a shit about listening to on such a topic

So getting all pissy at each other over a pointless discussion is equally pointless.

[Cooleko]

I outlined it in plain English, how it would work, don't ask stupid rhetorical questions.

... making statements like "This is impossible" and "If you think it's possible, you're illogical."

... I'll make you a pretty chart, so look forward to that.

I imagine your pretty huffy puffy.
Just because you say I said it doesnt make it so.
The closest I came to saying impossible in this thread is

It gets vastly more complicated and open to abuse when you factor in multiple people in the party though, which is why you probably don't see these systems more often.

Ever

If they tried it would be simple to pick apart the algorithm have the perfect item distribution every time.

Which to one of ordinary reading ability and rational, means there does not exist at this time a single MMO in which a group event has a perfect solution to prevent lack of drops.
* (other than having insanely high drops rate, [this is the only point i would concede and i am the first to bring it up in this particular discusion])

Now, if you take a few breathes, and try to expand your rational, you will see I have been making a small arguement this entire time while ignoring your false claims and accusations (aka the "it's impossible" that you cling too so hard).

So, I'll stand by my reasoning that a single player controls the modifier (which is unfair). or the group will take advantage of w/e group mechanics are thought out because people are not static within a group.

Programers are into making their game as fair as possible, and combining fairness with group related encounters, is a very tricky line to walk. This prevents a trivial solution and is probably why there is not one implemented outside of (Every kill has X percentage rate applied to the drop).

[Ramsey]

...I'll make you a pretty chart...

http://web9.twitpic.com/img/13082090...1da88-full.jpg

As you can see, any player that leaves the loop early in an attempt to exploit would be fucked, because their LootlessVictory is set to 0 at the time of initiation.

Any player that attempts to join between initiation and completion to exploit the event would gain no benefit because their StoredLootlessVictory would be null.

There's likely one small exploit that could occur given the above system, which could easily be fixed by creating a timer that sets your StoredLootlessVictory to null after a certain period of time if nothing happens, I'm just not going to go back to add that small note.

This would only be an issue if the event allowed for loot to be distributed to players that were not there at the time of initiation. In this example, all players are eligible for rewards, instead of an overall loot pool being eligible for rewards.

If you wanted to do an overall loot pool, you could do it in any number of ways, either by having LootlessVictory be a property of the Company you are in, or by having the value be averaged across the entire alliance at the time of initiation before it's stored.

[sruon]

Where's the JP button?

Spoiler: show

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5676/fixedy.png

[Purrrfect]

I thought we were off of this topic, but just to point out one thing about this last part, all of that can be dismissed, because it's not being sold in a region where any of those are primary languages.

And you want a language in a version sold in a country where said language is not the primary? I think you contradicted yourself.

[Achitophel]

You are so angry it is refreshing. I knew you were not a logical thinker.
So, only a single person gets this effect or multiple?

If you chose a single person have the effect then there is not effect for the group and it is pointless because the group could still go 0/100 if a person doesnt claim/kill/enter everytime (which is what you are wanting to prevent).

Now, If you have a more intricate formula where everyone in the group builds this value and it resets when the item drops. Then large groups are going to rotate smaller groups of people and manipulate it.

I understand it is hard for you, but unless it is tied to only a single person (which is unfair for a group) you cannot use this strategy. People will optimize and take advantage of anything else.

I hate to use actual examples, but the two most exploited in FFXI were:

Having all but one ra/ex drops from an NM forced the drop you wanted. (You understand how this was manipulated right? If not I can detail it for you)

And ODIN, with his feathers. (groups optimized the feather rotation to eliminate the one climb per odin and turned it into several climbs with (one run between odins)).

People will find a way to take advantage of group drop rates if they exist.

..Couldn't it just be an average of the 'scores' of a group? It's kinda clear how you could make it so a group wouldn't have an advantage.

[Cooleko]

As you can see, any player that leaves the loop early in an attempt to exploit would be fucked, because their LootlessVictory is set to 0 at the time of initiation.

Any player that attempts to join between initiation and completion to exploit the event would gain no benefit because their StoredLootlessVictory would be null.

There's likely one small exploit that could occur given the above system, which could easily be fixed by creating a timer that sets your StoredLootlessVictory to null after a certain period of time if nothing happens, I'm just not going to go back to add that small note.

This would only be an issue if the event allowed for loot to be distributed to players that were not there at the time of initiation. In this example, all players are eligible for rewards, instead of an overall loot pool being eligible for rewards.

If you wanted to do an overall loot pool, you could do it in any number of ways, either by having LootlessVictory be a property of the Company you are in, or by having the value be averaged across the entire alliance at the time of initiation before it's stored.

I would hate to DC (have my score reset) when the mob didnt drop and every one else got an increased drop rate.

Now, imagine me, someone a little smarter than you.

I have 15 people who want Item A... (and it only takes 3 to kill: tank, supprt, dd) Sooo, I roll the dice, all 15 in for the first 20 kills. No drop...

Now i split up into 5 groups. I now have 5 times the chance of getting a drop. If group 1 gets the drop great! groups 2-5 still have an increased drop rate!

The more willing you are to strech your chances the better drop rate you can get overall. Now do you understand?

[BlackheartX]

Where's the JP button?

Spoiler: show

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5676/fixedy.png

In the server-side code where you can't see it.

[Alderaan]

I would hate to DC (have my score reset) when the mob didnt drop and every one else got an increased drop rate.

Now, imagine me, someone a little smarter than you.

I have 15 people who want Item A... (and it only takes 3 to kill: tank, supprt, dd) Sooo, I roll the dice, all 15 in for the first 20 kills. No drop...

Now i split up into 5 groups. I now have 5 times the chance of getting a drop. If group 1 gets the drop great! groups 2-5 still have an increased drop rate!

The more willing you are to strech your chances the better drop rate you can get overall. Now do you understand?

You're assuming a little too much, but regardless, it's still a better system than server wide luck.

[Loaar]

I don't understand why there is all this bullshit about luck vs increased drop rate coded solutions. Just add a token system and be done with it.

Can we move on please? And don't start that shit about IME again. All the forum rage in the world here won't change the outcome, so shut up about it already.

[Hazado]

I don't understand why there is all this bullshit about luck vs increased drop rate coded solutions. Just add a token system and be done with it.

Can we move on please? And don't start that shit about IME again. All the forum rage in the world here won't change the outcome, so shut up about it already.

Please no tokens...I hate funcom for going this route.

[BlackheartX]

I don't understand why there is all this bullshit about luck vs increased drop rate coded solutions. Just add a token system and be done with it.

Can we move on please? And don't start that shit about IME again. All the forum rage in the world here won't change the outcome, so shut up about it already.

We don't speak off similar systems present in WOW around here...

P.S.
What else hasn't been harped on to death lately? Swimming?

[BunkMonk]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot, but I figured it's a random question, so here we go :3

Quick backstory: I'm an idiot and didn't realize Gmail changed their settings so that it automatically hides your spam folder. I assumed no spam folder = no junk mail. Well, I recently discovered this isn't the case, and so now I'm wondering if I could have possibly received a past invite and it was automatically deleted after 30 days of sitting there.

A friend of mine told me to attempt logging on using my SE account, and when I try, I get the following:

"You could not log in because the service account in question is not registered.
If you would like to log in to the service, please log in to the Square Enix Account Management System and register the service account."

If I log into my SE account first, and then try logging into the FFXIV site, I get sent to a maintenance page.

Now, pretty much every search with the phrase above comes back saying that your beta date isn't up quite yet and you just have to wait until the date mentioned in your email.

Do you think it is safe to assume I'm in the beta and that i start at a later date?..or can everyone and their mum get to this screen, even if they didn't register for the beta?

[Hazado]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot, but I figured it's a random question, so here we go :3

Quick backstory: I'm an idiot and didn't realize Gmail changed their settings so that it automatically hides your spam folder. I assumed no spam folder = no junk mail. Well, I recently discovered this isn't the case, and so now I'm wondering if I could have possibly received a past invite and it was automatically deleted after 30 days of sitting there.

A friend of mine told me to attempt logging on using my SE account, and when I try, I get the following:

"You could not log in because the service account in question is not registered.
If you would like to log in to the service, please log in to the Square Enix Account Management System and register the service account."

If I log into my SE account first, and then try logging into the FFXIV site, I get sent to a maintenance page.

Now, pretty much every search with the phrase above comes back saying that your beta date isn't up quite yet and you just have to wait until the date mentioned in your email.

Do you think it is safe to assume I'm in the beta and that i start at a later date?..or can everyone and their mum get to this screen, even if they didn't register for the beta?

This is the message you get if your not in the beta.

You could not log in because the service account in question is not registered.
If you would like to log in to the service, please log in to the Square Enix Account Management System and register the service account.

[Loaar]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot, but I figured it's a random question, so here we go :3

Quick backstory: I'm an idiot and didn't realize Gmail changed their settings so that it automatically hides your spam folder. I assumed no spam folder = no junk mail. Well, I recently discovered this isn't the case, and so now I'm wondering if I could have possibly received a past invite and it was automatically deleted after 30 days of sitting there.

A friend of mine told me to attempt logging on using my SE account, and when I try, I get the following:

"You could not log in because the service account in question is not registered.
If you would like to log in to the service, please log in to the Square Enix Account Management System and register the service account."

If I log into my SE account first, and then try logging into the FFXIV site, I get sent to a maintenance page.

Now, pretty much every search with the phrase above comes back saying that your beta date isn't up quite yet and you just have to wait until the date mentioned in your email.

Do you think it is safe to assume I'm in the beta and that i start at a later date?..or can everyone and their mum get to this screen, even if they didn't register for the beta?

You haven't been invited or you would be able to login to the site. You dont register anything, its a generic error message.