Iroquois is a Country? Travelling on Iroquois Passport

[Kerberoz]

Awwwww, how cute, they actually think their "nation" exists as anything other than a symbolic gesture.

[Blarg]

Britain should just say they are sorry, give them some sort of welcome to our land gift, like blankets, and let them play the game.

[Darus Grey]

@ Darus - Except this isn't the 1920s, and full Biometric passports that comply to Diplomatic regulations issued by an internationally recognized fully independent country are in absolutely no way comparable to what amount to home made partially hand written notebooks with a polaroid picture stuck in the back.

If they want to feel aggrieved then so be it, but no one is forcing them to travel anywhere, they chose not to seek/use a US/Canadian Passport.

You're arguing that their country doesn't deserve recognition because it's government is poor.


Let me be clear, you are retarded. Good, that's out of the way, your location says you're from the UK so being a pseudo-racist is to be expected anyways.

Let me make this clear, the UK has accepted Native American passports in the past, as recently as THIS YEAR.

The UK is hosting the world lacrosse championships this year, which invited the IROQUOIS NATIONAL team... i.e. the team from the Iroquois Nation. Ironically for a competition in a game they invented...lol.

When they finally get ready to go compete in the competition they were INVITED to, hosted by YOUR COUNTRY, they basically get told they're not real people and they're worried about it. Did I mention that there's already a ton of PRECEDENT for them accepting Native American passports? As well as about every other country on the planet? Which is the reason that many Native Americans ONLY have a Native American passport?

They're being douchebags for no apparent reason, and you're stupid to suggest otherwise.

To Americans:

Whether people think they're sovereign nations or not is absolutely irrelevant because they ARE, you can't argue this, the treaties are clear, and the constitution is clear about how treaties are to be honored(and not following that would be "Un-American"!).

Just because we've been curbstomping their rights for hundreds of years doesn't mean it's OK by now and they should just "give it up".

Seriously, some of you people are disgusting.

[aduidarnenye]

Well, I doubt the government of the United Kingdom personally invited the Iroquois team, it was probably the British national lacrosse organisation that did. Not the responsibility of the British government to be polite to them.

I am wondering if the Iroquois use any US governmental services despite claiming they are a sovereign nation. It seems to me that if you take all the benefits but refuse the responsibilities that you are being hypocritical. What we really need is a tl;dr explanation of how the Iroquois Nation works.

In my opinion, all natives in North America were invaded and defeated by Europeans. They were primitive and unable to cope with European technology. Reparations and concessions for a defeated people, defeated 400 years+ years ago, doesn't seem very logical to me. It'd be like saying Europeans should give half of Europe back to anyone of Celtic descent since the Celts were driven out by their ancestors and into Ireland.

[noblemountain]

You're arguing that their country doesn't deserve recognition because it's government is poor.


Let me be clear, you are retarded. Good, that's out of the way, your location says you're from the UK so being a pseudo-racist is to be expected anyways.

Let me make this clear, the UK has accepted Native American passports in the past, as recently as THIS YEAR.

The UK is hosting the world lacrosse championships this year, which invited the IROQUOIS NATIONAL team... i.e. the team from the Iroquois Nation. Ironically for a competition in a game they invented...lol.

When they finally get ready to go compete in the competition they were INVITED to, hosted by YOUR COUNTRY, they basically get told they're not real people and they're worried about it. Did I mention that there's already a ton of PRECEDENT for them accepting Native American passports? As well as about every other country on the planet? Which is the reason that many Native Americans ONLY have a Native American passport?

They're being douchebags for no apparent reason, and you're stupid to suggest otherwise.

To Americans:

Whether people think they're sovereign nations or not is absolutely irrelevant because they ARE, you can't argue this, the treaties are clear, and the constitution is clear about how treaties are to be honored(and not following that would be "Un-American"!).

Just because we've been curbstomping their rights for hundreds of years doesn't mean it's OK by now and they should just "give it up".

Seriously, some of you people are disgusting.

That is about as eloquently put as it can get. Some people in this thread have said some of the most insanely racist shit I've read on this board...and it wasn't trying to be funny, they actually believe it. China has been refusing to acknowledge Mongolian clan names on their passports for a decade now. They print their passports as "Bryn XXX" instead of "Bryn Borjigin". I have never heard of any other country giving anyone grief over it though. I get sick to my stomach seeing China work on "breeding out" the Mongolians in its country by giving free land to Chinese people in Inner Mongolia if they marry a Mongol woman, stopped teaching Mongolian in school, and replacing all Mongolian text on signs with Mandarin. It should remind you guys of what America did to the Indians over the past couple hundred years.

It is sad that this kind of stuff is allowed to continue on. America signed a treaty with those tribes. They didn't "conquer" them and force them to live somewhere...they negotiated a truce. What part of "sovereign nation" don't you people get?

[Kuya]

Well, I doubt the government of the United Kingdom personally invited the Iroquois team, it was probably the British national lacrosse organisation that did. Not the responsibility of the British government to be polite to them.

I am wondering if the Iroquois use any US governmental services despite claiming they are a sovereign nation. It seems to me that if you take all the benefits but refuse the responsibilities that you are being hypocritical. What we really need is a tl;dr explanation of how the Iroquois Nation works.

In my opinion, all natives in North America were invaded and defeated by Europeans. They were primitive and unable to cope with European technology. Reparations and concessions for a defeated people, defeated 400 years+ years ago, doesn't seem very logical to me. It'd be like saying Europeans should give half of Europe back to anyone of Celtic descent since the Celts were driven out by their ancestors and into Ireland.

Have you ever considered becoming an Israeli? You'd make a pretty good settler.

[BerenTebogo]

Well, I doubt the government of the United Kingdom personally invited the Iroquois team, it was probably the British national lacrosse organisation that did. Not the responsibility of the British government to be polite to them.

I am wondering if the Iroquois use any US governmental services despite claiming they are a sovereign nation. It seems to me that if you take all the benefits but refuse the responsibilities that you are being hypocritical. What we really need is a tl;dr explanation of how the Iroquois Nation works.

In my opinion, all natives in North America were invaded and defeated by Europeans. They were primitive and unable to cope with European technology. Reparations and concessions for a defeated people, defeated 400 years+ years ago, doesn't seem very logical to me. It'd be like saying Europeans should give half of Europe back to anyone of Celtic descent since the Celts were driven out by their ancestors and into Ireland.

ITT: Deceit, foreign pathogens that natives could hold no possible antibodies to, biological warfare, and agricultural terrorism are forms of technology.

Kenya is the most technologically advanced country in the world.

Only on BG.

[BerenTebogo]

Blacks shouldn't be angry about slavery. Deceit is a legitimate form of technology that their primitive African brains couldn't comprehend.

"Come with us Kumbabwe, we have food and shiniez!"

[thetruepandagod]

Blacks being angry about slavery now is similar to me being upset that one of my ancestors was enslaved by black pirates over 300 years ago.

[Rhinox]

In my opinion, all natives in North America were invaded and defeated by Europeans. They were primitive and unable to cope with European technology. Reparations and concessions for a defeated people, defeated 400 years+ years ago, doesn't seem very logical to me. It'd be like saying Europeans should give half of Europe back to anyone of Celtic descent since the Celts were driven out by their ancestors and into Ireland.

Holy shit LOL

The Retardedness in this post is just staggering.

For the rest of you layman fucks out there that don't know. The Constitution specifically states in Article 6

Treaties signed by the United States is in fact the supreme law of the land as laid out in this passage.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

But onto the Issue on hand It doesn't seem like the US is violating the treaty. What it's doing though is the absolute minimum. The State Department if it really wanted to could put pressure on the UK to allow them to enter. It definitely has enough clout to do so. Unfortunately SoS doesn't seem to have the appetite to pursue this more then what she already has done.

[aduidarnenye]

Ah I see. There should be no reasonable limit to war reparations at any point in time. All of our ancestors should pay the descendants of Iraqis and Afghans billions of dollars for eternity because of the current wars going on.

Let's see, my ancestors were Scottish, so I really need to be talking to the British government about reparations about my great-great-great-grandparents being kicked off their land. Maybe I can get my land back and make my own country!

There is a massive bloody difference between respecting and recognising cultural heritages and deciding you're your own bloody country and demand international rights.

The US State Department didn't even recognise the passports. Are passports part of the treaty? It's all well and good to scream and throw tantrums that treaties have to be recognised but what exactly is in that treaty?


P.S. Black people shouldn't be angry about slavery at this point. They should be mad about the current state of things, recognising that slavery was the history behind the current state of things. Also, the slave trade today, for sex trafficking of women, is larger than the black slave trade of the 1800s but no one ever fucking remembers that.

[Rhinox]

Ah I see. There should be no reasonable limit to war reparations at any point in time. All of our ancestors should pay the descendants of Iraqis and Afghans billions of dollars for eternity because of the current wars going on.

Let's see, my ancestors were Scottish, so I really need to be talking to the British government about reparations about my great-great-great-grandparents being kicked off their land. Maybe I can get my land back and make my own country!

There is a massive bloody difference between respecting and recognising cultural heritages and deciding you're your own bloody country and demand international rights.

The US State Department didn't even recognise the passports. Are passports part of the treaty? It's all well and good to scream and throw tantrums that treaties have to be recognised but what exactly is in that treaty?

Hey Stupid, the law in regards to the Native Americans has been the law for almost 200 years.

Indian Nations are considered "domestic dependent nations"

They aren't allowed to be recognized as Full sovereign nations but they enjoy the privileges of being a sovereign nation as long as its within the borders of the United States.

[Rhinox]

http://www.ourhonordefend.com/wp-con...e_you_know.jpg

[Quixon]

If it was a bunch of randoms from Asia trying to get into any western country with handwritten 'passports' they'd be rightly told where to go.

ROFL. Way to assume they are illegal hand-written passports because they belong to Native Americans.

[Lucki]

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanag...ortx-large.jpg

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ravel-abroad/1

[Darus Grey]

grandparents being kicked off their land. Maybe I can get my land back and make my own country!

There is a massive bloody difference between respecting and recognising cultural heritages and deciding you're your own bloody country and demand international rights.

They didn't just decide they were suddenly sovereign nations.

Who the fuck do you think we made treaties with to begin with?

Granted in general you're pretty fucking stupid as shown by every post you make, but you're particularly ignorant today.

Maybe you should take a moment and enlighten yourself
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/vol2/toc.htm

The relevant ones are Treaties with NY, and Six nations treaties.

Treaties are made between COUNTRIES... if that hasn't sunk into your thick skull yet.

The tribal lands have their own justice systems, have their own schools, enforcement agencies, and for over 100 years, their own international travel documents, they act for the most part autonomous. Some of the wealthier ones even maintain their own infrastructure. Some of the poorer ones are forced to rely on aid like any poor nation.

As a provision of the treaties, all Native Americans are also granted US citizenship, making them all dual-citizens(HURR DURR, IF THEY USE US SERVICES THEY ARE HYPOCRITES...god that was so dumb to say).

The reason for this was specifically to give the United States control over them, not to grace them with our blessings.

Since the U.S. specifically has it's own policy that people who commit crimes against U.S. citizens are responsible in U.S. court, this has the side-effect of making all Native Americans responsible for U.S. laws well they reside on their own sovereign land. It's a policy of control.

Basically, they ARE sovereign nations...if you argue this you are retarded(and thus I am sure you will argue it), but the power of the U.S. puts a lot of special provisions for these circumstances.

Just like how the U.S. can extradite U.K. citizens who commit crimes in the U.K. against U.S. citizens to be punished in the U.S. Justice system.

[aduidarnenye]

Hey Stupid, the law in regards to the Native Americans has been the law for almost 200 years.

Indian Nations are considered "domestic dependent nations"

They aren't allowed to be recognized as Full sovereign nations but they enjoy the privileges of being a sovereign nation as long as its within the borders of the United States.

So, that doesn't include international passports then, eh? Basically, they're pissed because the US has given them special rights within it's own borders and those rights don't extend to a passport recognisable by a wholely different nation.

As a provision of the treaties, all Native Americans are also granted US citizenship, making them all dual-citizens(HURR DURR, IF THEY USE US SERVICES THEY ARE HYPOCRITES...god that was so dumb to say).

You are a bloody moron. The Iroquois quite clearly said they don't recognise themselves as American citizens and therefore refuse American passports (even when offered quicky passports so they could attend the tournament).

I also don't see where this treaty states that Iroquois passports are usable to get in and out of the US since the US State Department initially refused to recognise them and would not have allowed them back into the country if they tried to use them, therefore the special documents given by the State Department to the natives.

[Darus Grey]

You are a bloody moron. The Iroquois quite clearly said they don't recognise themselves as American citizens and therefore refuse American passports (even when offered quicky passports so they could attend the tournament).

I also don't see where this treaty states that Iroquois passports are usable to get in and out of the US since the US State Department initially refused to recognise them and would not have allowed them back into the country if they tried to use them, therefore the special documents given by the State Department to the natives.

It's cute when you think anyone takes you seriously.

Many serious native americans do end up renouncing their US citizenship(you should look into it too).

This more or less dooms them to a life of being destitute since it means they can only work for other native americans now and DUE TO THE SITUATION WE PUT THEM IN... it just isn't practical.

I can't fault many Native Americans for being PRAGMATIC, and realizing they have to use their US citizenship TO SURVIVE.

At the same time...NOTHING ABOUT THAT diminishes their rights as a sovereign nation. If I'm an US/Canadian dual-citizen, the fact that I have US citizenship doesn't mean I don't have rights as a Canadian either.

Your entire argument is based on the circular logic that since we trample on their rights, it must be OK.

Seriously, lol@you.

[Skyylya]

They should've played soccer then they could do anything internationally.. stupid lacrosse players.

[Rhyis.]

They should've played soccer then they could do anything internationally.. stupid lacrosse players.

True story. You're not a real nation unless you've got a soccer team.