Iroquois is a Country? Travelling on Iroquois Passport

[Demosthenes11]

I think it has more to do with what their ancestors went through. For better or worse, it was a genocide. The vast majority of the native american population was killed off by disease or through wars, unless they were forced onto reservations. Something like this is not easily forgotten, and it would make sense why they harbor some animosity towards their American citizenship.

standing up on principle is retarded when you bitch about the repercussions

[sephir]

standing up on principle is retarded when you bitch about the repercussions

Completely agree.

But people gotta be complaining about something.

[aduidarnenye]

Kill yourself please. I covered this already.

Let me be clear, like all dumb bitches, you don't know you're a dumb bitch, so out of guilt I am forced to give you a certain amount of leeway in my addresses since I understand that you can't help but be this way. Moving on...

WHAT THE FUCK DOES REPARATIONS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?

We're talking about respecting the rights of a sovereign nation, not REPARATIONS.

We made TREATIES with NATIONS that STILL HOLD TO THIS DAY. They didn't magically disappear just because we want them to.

The only people making this a "racial" issue are racist fucks like you.

Also since THE SITUATION WE PUT THEM IN, hasn't CHANGED, that makes us just as fucking CULPABLE doesn't it?
The difference is for African Americans SLAVERY ENDED, the crimes we commit against native americans CONTINUE INTO THE PRESENT.

Do you get it yet? If not I'm going to have to put you down.

Dude, you're a fucking idiot. I am beginning to seriously believe that someone dropped you on your head as a child. Your arguments are fatuous and completely retarded.

What does how our ancestors treated the natives have to do with whether or not they are willing to use an American passport or why Britain won't allow them to enter their country with an Iroquois passport? How does being recognised as a sovereign nation in America have anything to do with a country that does not recognise them as such? Why are you all so caught up in what America did to the natives rather than them trying to get into a foreign country without legal passports? You yourself said that Native Americans tend to be pragmatic and use American passports and keep dual-citizenship. Why not espouse the view that this particular team do so as well? Why the fuck can't you see that the discussion about the reparations was a separate issue discussed in the same thread?

And what the fuck? You don't believe that there is racism and racist crimes commited against black people continue into the present day for them to be angry about? Seriously? And, I'm not out there committing crimes against natives. In fact, I spent a year on a reserve teaching kids martial arts in an youth programme. How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that "we" are commiting the same crimes against natives that our ancestors did? Cornwallis ordered the scalping of natives. I've not heard anyone order that in, well, fucking ever.

[Kuya]

Should probably ban the OP. It sullies the goodness that is Shiro and Blarg.

[ZarakiKujata]

http://images.bluegartr.com/forum/cu...ar34230_29.gif

[zoobernut]

It's also quite amusing how naive people are about the genocidal tendencies perpetuated by our direct ancestors in this country. I mean, for some people when it came to the slave trade, or various European conquests, their ancestors just benefited from the injustice - but regarding this situation, many Americans are direct descendants of people who happily murdered women and children with a smile on their faces.

It's truly astonishing to see how quickly and willingly people are to accept this blatant revisionism.

With that said, I'm off for the day. I look forward to 10+ pages of what it means to be a "true" American by the time I come back.

Do you think this might be a reason why so many people are reluctant to say they are American and often times say they are of German, Russian, Japanese etc. decent or ancestry?

It seems like more people I meet identify themselves by the countries in Europe their ancestors came from than by being American.


Edit: Wait are we using the term Native American or Indian in this thread?

Too bad every society at some point has done horrible horrible things.

Don't forget many Indian tribes in North America and South America were already committing genocide against other Indian tribes long before Europeans came to North America or South America.

[Antithesis]

http://www.freewebs.com/metalgear_fo...%20pliskin.JPG

[Demosthenes11]

Do you think this might be a reason why so many people are reluctant to say they are American and often times say they are of German, Russian, Japanese etc. decent or ancestry?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanjing

fuck the japanese

[Vuitton]

I am more interested in learning if Britain has previously let in people using Iroquois passports. I don't care about other Native American Nations that entered Britain recently with their Native passports, or of other Iroquois people getting in with U.S. passports.

Have Iroquois people gotten into Britain within the last few years using their Iroquois papers?

If not, I don't see a double standard. I see it as an issue between Britain and the Iroquois, and not Britain and the Native American Nations.

[zoobernut]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanjing

fuck the japanese

I don't really get the point of you posting that? Are you trying to refute something I said?

[thetruepandagod]

I don't get it either, every nation in history has done something atrocious. This is a given.

[Aesctaa]

You're arguing that their country doesn't deserve recognition because it's government is poor.


Let me be clear, you are retarded. Good, that's out of the way, your location says you're from the UK so being a pseudo-racist is to be expected anyways.

Let me make this clear, the UK has accepted Native American passports in the past, as recently as THIS YEAR.

The UK is hosting the world lacrosse championships this year, which invited the IROQUOIS NATIONAL team... i.e. the team from the Iroquois Nation. Ironically for a competition in a game they invented...lol.

When they finally get ready to go compete in the competition they were INVITED to, hosted by YOUR COUNTRY, they basically get told they're not real people and they're worried about it. Did I mention that there's already a ton of PRECEDENT for them accepting Native American passports? As well as about every other country on the planet? Which is the reason that many Native Americans ONLY have a Native American passport?

They're being douchebags for no apparent reason, and you're stupid to suggest otherwise.

To Americans:

Whether people think they're sovereign nations or not is absolutely irrelevant because they ARE, you can't argue this, the treaties are clear, and the constitution is clear about how treaties are to be honored(and not following that would be "Un-American"!).

Just because we've been curbstomping their rights for hundreds of years doesn't mean it's OK by now and they should just "give it up".

Seriously, some of you people are disgusting.

First of all, a personal attack, and a random picked-from-the-air insult about my location. That adds a lot of credence to any post. You obviously have some sort of misguided malice.

I don't really care who they are, but if you want entry into another country, you have to do things their way. That is not up for debate, and i can only assume from some of the attitudes in this thread that some people have not traveled much, or have some sort of bloated self entitlement.

If anyone has had to go to an embassy for a Visa application then you'll know the drill, you have to satisfy their criteria, whatever they are, or they are perfectly entitled to decline you. If their criteria changes you have no right to complain. You might be too righteous to have bothered looking but the UK has had a change of government this year, a government that can set whatever requirements it choses on foreign nationals seeking to visit.

I never assumed they were hand written passports, i know they are hand written passports because unlike some i actually read the article(s) and watched the videos. Last time I went to the US embassy in early May they required machine readable passports with no exceptions.

Its a shame they cannot compete, it looks like they'd be a strong team, but its their choice.

[Demosthenes11]

you said people avoid identifying themselves as american because of the things we have done. You used japanese as an example of a culture people would rather identify with.

Nothing, short of a few of the mass genocides committed by a few countries (no, america's sins with the native americans are not on this list), compare to what the japanese did.

On top of it all, they refuse to acknowledge it happened and give the children revisionist history on how they were not bad guys vs the chinese in WWII.

Maybe I just skimmed too quickly and that was completely off base of what you were saying lol. I just want to say fuck the japanese as often as I can

[Aesctaa]

I am more interested in learning if Britain has previously let in people using Iroquois passports. I don't care about other Native American Nations that entered Britain recently with their Native passports, or of other Iroquois people getting in with U.S. passports.

Have Iroquois people gotten into Britain within the last few years using their Iroquois papers?

If not, I don't see a double standard. I see it as an issue between Britain and the Iroquois, and not Britain and the Native American Nations.

UK changed from a Labour to Conservative/Liberal coalition government in mid May, so all the Home office policies would have been subject to change at the time. and of course anytime since.

[zoobernut]

Do you think this might be a reason why so many people are reluctant to say they are American and often times say they are of German, Russian, Japanese etc. decent or ancestry?

Too bad every society at some point has done horrible horrible things.

Bolding the part you missed. I was being facetious when I said that. Because like you said nearly every group of people throughout history has done some atrocious act against another group of people. It is part of the human condition.

This is in response to Demo. But it still doesn't change the fact that people often do associate themselves with their ancestry rather than being American for various reasons that I am not sure about.

[Ferien]

Bolding the part you missed. I was being facetious when I said that. Because like you said nearly every group of people throughout history has done some atrocious act against another group of people. It is part of the human condition.

This is in response to Demo. But it still doesn't change the fact that people often do associate themselves with their ancestry rather than being American for various reasons that I am not sure about.

I'm more amused that he picked the Japanese out of that list and not the Germans. Wasn't there something going on in Europe about the same time as the Japanese were killing a bunch of Chinese? I seem to remember hearing about something...vaguely...

[Khajit]

Dude. Nanking was so bad the NAZIS were hiding people from the Japanese during that.

Also. Since when is the fact that everyone did a bad thing an excuse to keep on doing it or allow the aftereffects of bad things to continue?

As long as their nation isn't in the Buy-Sell-Trade forum. The term indian giver is around for a reason.

The term Indian giver comes from the Europeans being retarded. The Europeans went to a bunch of people and offered them a bunch for cash for something the Indians they were talking to didn't even own. (the land belonged to a different tribe) It was the equivalent of you going out into Quebec and paying some people in a bar a bunch of cash for the rights to the entire United States.

[Kuya]

you said people avoid identifying themselves as american because of the things we have done. You used japanese as an example of a culture people would rather identify with.

Nothing, short of a few of the mass genocides committed by a few countries (no, america's sins with the native americans are not on this list), compare to what the japanese did.

On top of it all, they refuse to acknowledge it happened and give the children revisionist history on how they were not bad guys vs the chinese in WWII.

Maybe I just skimmed too quickly and that was completely off base of what you were saying lol. I just want to say fuck the japanese as often as I can

Dragging along what demosthenes said, would we chide the chinese for not wanting to identify as japenese if the situation ever came up? Taking into account what the japanese did to the chinese. Or is the unwillingness to relate to how native americans feel about America as an anglosaxon nation-state a product of the fact that most of the people in this forum identity with the American nation?

Or maybe natives are just whiny bitch-fucks who need to get the fuck over shit that happened a few centuries ago.

[Cleverness]

And what the fuck? You don't believe that there is racism and racist crimes commited against black people continue into the present day for them to be angry about? Seriously?

You must be stupid. While there is still racism, African-Americans after slavery eventually gained freedom, civil rights(like voting) and also affirmative action + other things to help those who needed it. Meanwhile the Native tribes have really gotten nothing but a little piece of land and no rights. They are NOT AT ALL THE SAME and bringing it up just further proves to everyone that you're a fucking moron, jesus no wonder people make fun of Canadians.

[aduidarnenye]

You must be stupid. While there is still racism, African-Americans after slavery eventually gained freedom, civil rights(like voting) and also affirmative action + other things to help those who needed it. Meanwhile the Native tribes have really gotten nothing but a little piece of land and no rights. They are NOT AT ALL THE SAME and bringing it up just further proves to everyone that you're a fucking moron, jesus no wonder people make fun of Canadians.

Native American's aren't allowed to vote in the US? Affirmative action doesn't cover natives there? Natives have no rights as citizens of the USA? I didn't know that! In fact, I was pretty sure someone said earlier they could be dual-citizens but I guess if they're citizens they don't get any of the rights associated.

Talk about stupidity...