Palin vs. Muslims

[BerenTebogo]

Well no, Sath is certainly not being a cultural relativist. He looks like he is complaining about Muslim culture (the religious aspect of it), so he can't possibly be called that. If anything, i look like a cultural relativist by criticizing his confusing remarks.

I criticize the religious aspect of everything. This isn't news.

[Effluo]

And for those saying "Get over the Attack" I'm sure those 3000 families would like to have a word with you.

I'm pretty sure we still haven't full gotten over Pearl Harbor, but that could just be me. We didn't build a Buddha after the attack, we built a memorial to those who died and fought. Just sayin

[dejet]

And for those saying "Get over the Attack" I'm sure those 3000 families would like to have a word with you.

I'm pretty sure we still haven't full gotten over Pearl Harbor, but that could just be me. We didn't build a Buddha after the attack, we built a memorial to those who died and fought. Just sayin

Im part of them.

[BerenTebogo]

Effluo is certainly taking it upon himself to present all of the arguments that Lief and Egon would have made.

[Kuya]

No opinions inserted. Facts are as they are. The middle east accomplished more in the ways of science and math during the years 1000-1160ish than any other civilization since the Greeks, and the decline was brought about by a religious zealot who furthered a movement citing science and mathematics as the devils work.

He supported burning and pillaging of all sites of knowledge and learning and supported the stoning of all who valued knowledge over Allah.

This is all historical fact. These are also the tenements that survived and flourished for centuries afterwards, fueling the dominance of the Ottoman empire.

The middle east have never recovered to the standing they once held in terms of a hotbed of intellectualism.

None of this is opinion.

Edit: So yes, they've literally made "backwards" progress in terms of the pursuit of knowledge. I stand by this.

I don't know anything about intellectualism in the Middle East, and i have a sneaking suspicion that neither do you.

What you call fact is conjecture unless you care to prove it here.

[Rhyis.]

The next time the IRA bomb something, be sure to blame every catholic on the planet.

[Chun Liroy]

Once a film is made, america is officially over it.

[Effluo]

Come to think of it, I wonder if Japan has gotten over that whole Atomic Bomb thing.

[dejet]

Once a film is made, america is officially over it.

>.> I know it was a joke(maybe) but Hollywood could die in a fire.

Come to think of it, I wonder if Japan has gotten over that whole Atomic Bomb thing.

Like I pointed out, the older generation has not. However the younger one was not part of the events. My school had one of the last survivors(Atomic bomb survivor) of the events talk about it.

Wish I had time to have gone to see it, but the event happened to land when I had class. A friend who has seen it said it was really scary the way he talked about the event. How he did not fully understand the reasoning for why it had to happen to this day still.

So yes you would be right that they are not fully over it. I just wish the past did not have to be brought up over and over.

[Acturus]

And for those saying "Get over the Attack" I'm sure those 3000 families would like to have a word with you.

I'm pretty sure we still haven't full gotten over Pearl Harbor, but that could just be me. We didn't build a Buddha after the attack, we built a memorial to those who died and fought. Just sayin

There's a Buddhist Temple 2.2 miles from the Pearl Harbor Memorial.

Just sayin

[Cadsuane]

I don't know anything about intellectualism in the Middle East, and i have a sneaking suspicion that neither do you.

What you call fact is conjecture unless you care to prove it here.

Oh, no he's quite right. What basically jump started western scholasticism was the rediscovery of greek philosophy and in particular, neo-platonism being reconciled with christianity, and since the most accomplished polymaths and neo-platonist philosophers (like I said, Averroes, Avicenna, etc.) were arabs and persians at the time it can be said that occidental intellectualism was inherited from the middle east during the middle ages. After that it was all downhill for the muslim world though.

[Chun Liroy]

Come to think of it, I wonder if Japan has gotten over that whole Atomic Bomb thing.

pretty sure japan should be more worried about chernobyl.

[Tyrath]

Come to think of it, I wonder if Japan has gotten over that whole Atomic Bomb thing.

I'm sure there are catholic churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Lucavi]

I do see where you are coming from, and that is why I did point out that 90% of the people have no right at all to be mad. A racist is a racist. Im talking about people such as myself who had 2 or 3 or even more friends and family killed in the attack. My Step Mother who use to work in one of the buildings(7 I want to say) said that like half of her old team was badly hurt or killed.

Not the white guy named joe who would kill anyone who is not white. The people who where effected first hand by the attacks.

I'm sorry for your loss. I didn't lose anyone in the attacks, so I can't claim to know how you feel or what the news of this building does to your emotions, but whoever is building this building isn't at fault. If some black guy kills your sister, I am not at fault simply because I, too, am black.

I know you get that, but these people must not. I'd have no problem with the feds secretly checking up on this place once its finished, just to make sure, but I do have a problem with anyone trying to deny these people a legitimate chance to build the building of their choosing in what we claim is a free nation.

America just isn't free for white guys n' gals, and I think some of these right-winged twits need to understand that. If they don't like certain parts of the constitution that wasn't clear enough about some supposed white-is-right mentality, they should take it up with their ancestors (though many of these hatred-spewing idiots' relatives probably came over in boats during the late 1800's).

[BerenTebogo]

I don't know anything about intellectualism in the Middle East, and i have a sneaking suspicion that neither do you.

What you call fact is conjecture unless you care to prove it here.

First thing I could come up with. It's just an article. I'll cite more relevant shit after I eat this spaghetti.

Starting in the 5th century of the Hegira (Europe’s 11th century), the tendency to rigidity began to triumph. At that time, all work on the Koran stopped; its definitive form was adopted. From then on, the competing recensions and textual variants, which had given rise to heated debates, were blocked out. 

During this period the notion of innovation (bid’a), so productive in the earlier period, became tainted with a paralysing negativity, so much so that, to translate the implications of the word, orientalists had to add a pejorative adjective to it (“blameworthy innovation”). It is as if those in power thought that whatever had already been constructed was adequate. So the effort of theological construction was replaced by the rigour of orthopraxis, of control and conformity to the rules of worship. 

A far more hostile backlash took hold at the end of the 13th century, when the Hanbali scholar Ibn Taymiyya (d1328) began his assault on the effects of openness. Dedicating his career to indexing the noxious influence of bid’a on the purity of the Koran, he obsessively denounced the introduction of Jewish, Christian, Greek, Manichean, Mazdean and Hindu motifs into Islam, along with the echoes of philosophy, mysticism and paganism. A sworn enemy of the Enlightenment, Taymiyya produced the pattern from which all future fundamentalism would derive.

Tamiyya helped drive out of the Islamic world the innovative ideas championed by scholars like Muqaffa and Razi. When they reappeared at the end of the 18th century, it was as an import from newly enlightened Europe, carried in the wake of Napoleon’s invading army.

Their arrival provoked something like an electric shock in the Arab Orient. Until then, Islam had thought itself superior, or at least equal, to Europe in military force and the achievements of civilisation. But it suddenly found itself confronted with arms, material goods, technical methods and scientific approaches that were unknown and in many ways more advanced. Struggling to understand the reasons for Islam’s backwardness in contrast to European advancement, a new generation of Muslim scholars from the Arabic, Turkish, Persian and Asiatic worlds travelled through Europe to discover the Enlightenment and its principles and then communicated their fascination to their compatriots and co-religionists. A movement of Occidentalism, even Occidentalophilia, arose among the elite. A longing for Europe was expressed in the policies of the various governments the reforms of the tanzimet introduced in the Ottoman Empire by the sultans Mahmud II (reigned 1808-1839) and Abdulmejid I (reigned 1839-1861) and the modernisation of Egypt, under the initiative of Mohammed Ali (1805-1849). 

http://newhumanist.org.uk/1533/who-turned-off-the-light

[Cadsuane]

Well no, Sath is certainly not being a cultural relativist. He looks like he is complaining about Muslim culture (the religious aspect of it), so he can't possibly be called that. If anything, i look like a cultural relativist by criticizing his confusing remarks.

I meant that criticism of islamophobia as a westerner doesn't require cultural relativism since it's a viewpoint that can be easily reconciled (doesn't necessarily contradict) with disdainfulness for religious and conservative cultures.

[Mizango]

And for those saying "Get over the Attack" I'm sure those 3000 families would like to have a word with you.

I'm pretty sure we still haven't full gotten over Pearl Harbor, but that could just be me. We didn't build a Buddha after the attack, we built a memorial to those who died and fought. Just sayin

Building a memorial is one thing, but denying someone who wants to build Mosque in the same hemisphere based on something they didn't do is silly. Hell lets put this in context where Blacks want our goddamn reparations, 40 acres a mule and an official apology. You're quick to bring up "ancestors did that" or "lol it wasn't me", yet when it comes to shit like this then you throw the "lol it wasn't them" logic out of the window.

Shitty analogy is shitty but its the only way to put it in context for p-dub T.

[Mizango]

There's a Buddhist Temple 2.2 miles from the Pearl Harbor Memorial.

Just sayin

Exactly what I was going to look up lol. Good call.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Wheres Swampdonkey.

Someone already mentioned it. Islam has a history of building mosques in symbolic places as a tribute to that "victory."

But even if that weren't true, you can't blame people for being incensed over this. It's incredibly insensitive.

[Ohemgee]

YA'LL ACTIN LIKE THERE WEREN'T CRAZY CHRISTIANS

ACT A FOOL YO