Thaumaturge

[Fievel]

Yup, THM is amazing and people don't know it yet. Managing MP is the skill to know, and separates the good THMs from the bad. Thundaga is nice, but only shit was I surprised by how powerful Thundara is.

First thing I did day of update was play with nukes, was pleasently surprised.

Thank you for the great write up as always kaeko!

[Enygma55]

For burst dmg THM is great I agree, which applies to pretty much any fight involving only 1 mob. In the moogle battle, the MP limitations severly hamper the overall effectiveness of THM making them pretty useless in endurance fights with time limits. (lower overall DPS) This might be an isolated case tho. They need to make Blissful Mind non-exclusive. BLM coming out with Convert might solve all this.

I just dislike that THM nuke is limited to pretty much thunder (again). When I play a mage job, I'd like to be able to spec any element I like or atleast not be limited to just 1. I like the idea of exploiting elemental weakness of mobs.

[Elcura]

In Moogle fight, I can pretty much stay at 2000+ MP easily unless I get raped with MP drain. It really isn't hard to conserve MP and if you keep wasting it on Thundaga combos (Thundara is better) you'll be fine for a long time.

I'm playing around with forced Thundaga crit, because that's the only way Thundaga can get close to Thundara, but even then I think Thundara is just better damage/mp overall.

[Hiroishime]

AoE bind is pretty potent too when u stacked up enough M.Acc/MND

[Celeras]

Yup, THM is amazing and people don't know it yet. Managing MP is the skill to know, and separates the good THMs from the bad. Thundaga is nice, but only shit was I surprised by how powerful Thundara is.

I like how standing around doing nothing has become the 'skill to know' lol. THMs MP conservation options are slim and none.

For burst dmg THM is great I agree, which applies to pretty much any fight involving only 1 mob. In the moogle battle, the MP limitations severly hamper the overall effectiveness of THM making them pretty useless in endurance fights with time limits.

Blowing up chosen targets quickly is the key to P2 of the Moogles, and THM shines in that role regardless if the DPS ends up lower overall.

[Kaeko]

Everything tested on 50 THM.

Sanguine Rite:
* Gives you 30% damage taken to MP (rounded up)
* Magic/Physical damage sources included, does not include DoT
* Works with Sacred Prism
* THM trait effect seems to work with Sacred Prism as well but don't know the damage reduction %.
- very strong skill for tank, near infinite MP on hard targets like Ifrit
- High MP cost (336) requires that you take 1120 damage in the 20 second window just to break even for the caster
- Useful with Sacred Prism when eating Hellfire / Memento Mori
- Need to check the damage reduction. The in-game status description says it "halves damage taken" but from eyeballing it's much less than 50% reduction

Parsimony:
- MP cost of next attack spell halved (obvious)
* MP return is tied to damage dealt on the spell used - returns 35% damage dealt (rounded up) or 560 MP capped (occurs at 1600+ damage)
- MP return occurs after the cost of the spell used (so if you use spell at full MP and Parsimony will attempt to cover cost of spell)
* The most MP you could ever save on 1 Parsimony is on a 1600+ damage Firaga (917)
* Much weaker than the MP battery spells that CON gets. Assuming we're strictly using the Thunder => Thundara combo, your best bet is to use this for a Thundara +/- on critical hit. A reasonably to well geared THM on Ifrit will do about 600-750 her Thundara non-critical, combo'd, unresisted. That comes out to about 399-452 MP gained every 90 seconds if we include the halved MP cost.
* Would consider pairing this spell with Dark Seal unless you have reason to save it for something else (like Sleep). The MP return is ultimately tied to damage dealt, which is tied to your magic accuracy on harder fights. This makes it doubly important to have good accuracy on nukes as it affects your MP return here.

Necrogenesis:
- HP healed is based on the damage dealt by the next attack spell. Heals up to 80% of the damage dealt by the spell, capped up to 1408 (1760+ damage)
- Unsure if this HP heal counts toward enmity, but my guess would be that it doesn't.
* I don't know what's with the 1408 HP healed cap; it's a weird number. The 1408 number did not change with my max HP or MP (2600/3226 while testing if curious), nor did it change with the spell that was used
* Again similar to Parsimony, this ability is best used on your strongest unresisted spell possible. Seems like a recurring theme that THM's abilities are all heavily tied to ability to do damage.
* About a 480-600 HP heal up to every 60 seconds on Ifrit if we use the 600-750 range for a reasonably to well geared THM.

[Elcura]

I like how standing around doing nothing has become the 'skill to know' lol. THMs MP conservation options are slim and none.

And yet there are still so many shitty THMs who run out of MP. So apparently it is a skill to know. And if you're standing around doing nothing, then way to be useless considering I can still support and enfeeble with Blizzard and Stone while doing damage. Standing around is a vital part. And knowing how to defend yourself while avoiding movement at all costs is to. Idiots like to run around, but the only thing I run from is MP absorb.

Stay free.

edit: Also, thanks Kaeko for the tests. Appreciate all your hard work as always. I didn't know you could use Sanguine Rite with Sacred Prism, that's pretty amazing.

[Celeras]

And if you're standing around doing nothing, then way to be useless. Standing around is a vital part.

Stay shitty.

- Need to check the damage reduction. The in-game status description says it "halves damage taken" but from eyeballing it's much less than 50% reduction

I was just assuming it was 50% from the description, but didn't notice it being considerably less than that. A cactuar run should put it to rest though.

[Elcura]

Key phrase would be doing nothing, not standing around.

Stay free.

[Mimiruu]

Tested Ifrit with THM with 349 INT | 256 MND | 515 MATK | 464 MACC
* Only used Thunder ==> Thundara combo as its the most efficient combo

Saw maybe 1 resist in this setup out of 10 combos. Thunder did around 240-250 unresisted. Thundara after combo did 650ish. The combo only proc's if the first spell is completely unresisted. Because Thundara's damage boost from combo is key to its MP efficiency, you really have to make sure there isn't a resist to Thunder or it's not ever worth using.

Overall, very impressed. An unresisted combo at ~350 INT is 900 damage and you can use it roughly every 15-20 seconds. Keep in mind that Thunder is short casting time and Thundara is instant cast with a very short recast timer on combo. A THM can do about 6-7 of the Thunder -> Thundara combos if you completely neglect all MP abilities and MP refresh, which is 5400-6300 damage. Ifrit only has about 32,000 (though has massive regen). I was constantly forced to stop due to hate issues. I ended up just chilling out spamming light cure and stoneskin until near or at nails. Then I would blow all my MP there for burst damage at the end.

Last note is that MACC plays a significant role in your resist rate. Friend in the fight with me tried with 404 MACC and got resisted nearly every time. At around 448 I was fairly accurate and near-always accurate at 460+. I think the fact that you can see a huge jump from 400 to 460 suggests that MACC has some direct check with MEVA as opposed to a ratio, meaning that stacking MACC on resistant mobs has a very strong effect. This is theorycraft from observation though.

It'll be interesting to see how quickly people realize how strong THM is. The official forums are still QQing about it and MP efficiency, but it's a very strong job as is right now. The MP costs make it a more difficult job to manage though.

Quelling strike and Chameleon from archer help A LOT to keep enmity down during this fight. When i first started going THM to this i'd get about 17-20 casts in during a fight because i had to watch hate, now i get upwards of +30 casts. Our group with 5 THM's downs him in about 8-9 minutes now pretty consistently.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Tested Ifrit with THM with 349 INT | 256 MND | 515 MATK | 464 MACC
* Only used Thunder ==> Thundara combo as its the most efficient combo

Saw maybe 1 resist in this setup out of 10 combos. Thunder did around 240-250 unresisted. Thundara after combo did 650ish. The combo only proc's if the first spell is completely unresisted. Because Thundara's damage boost from combo is key to its MP efficiency, you really have to make sure there isn't a resist to Thunder or it's not ever worth using.

Overall, very impressed. An unresisted combo at ~350 INT is 900 damage and you can use it roughly every 15-20 seconds. Keep in mind that Thunder is short casting time and Thundara is instant cast with a very short recast timer on combo. A THM can do about 6-7 of the Thunder -> Thundara combos if you completely neglect all MP abilities and MP refresh, which is 5400-6300 damage. Ifrit only has about 32,000 (though has massive regen). I was constantly forced to stop due to hate issues. I ended up just chilling out spamming light cure and stoneskin until near or at nails. Then I would blow all my MP there for burst damage at the end.

Last note is that MACC plays a significant role in your resist rate. Friend in the fight with me tried with 404 MACC and got resisted nearly every time. At around 448 I was fairly accurate and near-always accurate at 460+. I think the fact that you can see a huge jump from 400 to 460 suggests that MACC has some direct check with MEVA as opposed to a ratio, meaning that stacking MACC on resistant mobs has a very strong effect. This is theorycraft from observation though.

It'll be interesting to see how quickly people realize how strong THM is. The official forums are still QQing about it and MP efficiency, but it's a very strong job as is right now. The MP costs make it a more difficult job to manage though.

What's your gear set up look like? I've been trying to boost macc for ifrit but my int is incredibly lacking next to yours.

[Seravi Edalborez]

From Kaeko's lodestone blog:

Water Brand with +20, +19 INT
Felt Cav Hat Brown with +17, +17 INT
Gridanian Shield
Felt Bliaud Brown with +55 HP
Raptorskin Satchel Belt with +55, +55 HP
Boarskin Ringband of Storms with +60 HP
Felt Gaskins Brown with +8 INT/MND, +7 INT/PIE
Mahogany Pattens with +10, +12, +9 MATK
Dated Goshenite Ring x3

The weapon could be improved if I had double socket'd an Electrum Scepter with x2 INT IVs. I'm also considering double socketing Electrum Scepter with Hell's Eye IV x2 instead. Still unclear as to how much MACC is worthwhile on higher end targets. From soloing Lv60-64 drakes east of Ul'dah, I'm leaning more towards double MACC at this point since I like to solo high end material, However, for trash mobs to low 50 mobs, I would definitely go with double INT. For Ifrit I think either works as long as your MACC is 460ish - your limiting factor isn't MP efficiency/damage-per-nuke, it's enmity so your choice doesn't matter as much.

464 MACC was using an electrum scepter with MACC IV on it. THe posted set above is my default set I use when fighting normal mobs. For Ifrit I currently use something like 475 MACC / 334 INT

Personally I would opt for Felt Hat of Intelligence with melds, Storm Sergeant's Bliaud (if you're Maelstrom), and maybe Warlock's Pattens. Maybe enmity- on belt. Also wondering why all the HP?

[Grey Jorildyn]

Well he does a lot of solo stuff. Also you can't put straight INT on anything but two slots, and the third is a leg meld with another stat. HP is a good filler.

I find -enmity not to be all that useful since chameleon is fairly decent. As is you need to manage your MP when nuking and that comes with an air of managing enmity as well.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Fair enough. I just share my enmity belt with other jobs out of lazymode.
As a plus, +HP makes for better Blissful Minds on CON.

[Elcura]

I think investing in Magic Crit Potency for THM is a good idea since you can force Crit on Thundaga with a little bit of timing (and luck). I'm not sure what I should focus on more, INT or Matk, but I have sets with both.

[Seravi Edalborez]

It's a really, really rudimentary test (Mask of the Mortal Hex vs Paragon's Crown on Ifrit with lame-gear THM), but I feel INT carries more weight than just Matk potency. Resisted less and hit harder when I landed with Crown. 'Course Crown's MND is also giving a bit of Macc.

[Kaeko]

I think investing in Magic Crit Potency for THM is a good idea since you can force Crit on Thundaga with a little bit of timing (and luck). I'm not sure what I should focus on more, INT or Matk, but I have sets with both.

Regarding MATK vs. INT, I believe you should always prioritize INT. MATK is one of the more underwhelming stats in the game currently. Testing thread link below:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...t=#post4919705

For M.Crit, I actually feel this is also not a great stat. Critical % and Critical damage bonus are both affected by dLVL (in fact, mentioned by the dev team at some point). For a dLVL49 mob (Corroded Coblyn), your crit rate is almost 20-25% and when you do critical, your damage is boosted by about 75%. However, this scales down drastically by the time you fight mobs 50 or above. For instance, on Ifrit, a critical may only grant you a damage bonus of 60-80 damage on a Thundara (~10% boost as opposed to the 75% you got on dLVL49). So even if you can force that critical hit with Excruciate, the bonus isn't substantial. Though I never thoroughly tested Sagacious Might / M. Crit potency gear, I was so underwhelmed when eyeballing it that I opted for HP materia on my hands.

Regarding gear choice, the Felt Hat of Intelligence is the better hat to socket INTs in (as mentioned by Sevari). The reason mine's a Cav hat is because I did not figure out MATK was not as good as INT until after I had made this double socket hat.

Finally, regarding HP materia, Grey is right in that a lot of it is good filler, especially for soloist. You could argue PIE on the body piece but it's crazy expensive right now and the benefits are generally untested at this point. The enfeeble cap is still 75% for Sleep/Repose so I don't feel it's worth it looking for a enfeebling set. The enfeeble land rate cap on enfeebles tied to spells is much higher than 75% though, so if someone really, really wanted to, you could test a maxed PIE build on that land rate.

EDIT:
The 1.20 patch may have boosted the effectiveness of MATK as compared to 1.19. The reason being in 1.19, nukes had extremely low base damage; in 1.19 the majority of your damage with regards to the internal formula was from your INT difference and not the base damage of the spell. In 1.20, the base damage of spells was substantially increased (even by 10x or more). Now that the base damage is higher, MATK has more to increase. I have no tested anything with regards to the nuking damage formulas in 1.20, so this is all theorycraft.

[plue]

Just got Blizzara today, thought it would Combo with Blizzard, but was disappointed. I wonder why they limited the Combos in that fashion, cause it's looking like I'm just going to be casting Thunder for 50 levels.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Blizz/ara are more for crowd control. It's arguably better than "the same 6 spells but you'll only ever use one."

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Been playing THM for ifrit, finally beating him 3 times for some DM x3 and a totem <.<, and honestly just eyeballing it it seems there was no difference really in accuracy from 462~ to 472~. Granted 10 difference isn't that much but still you'd think I would be a little more accurate. Has anyone done more testing onto what the magic acc cap is before diminishing returns for these high NMS? I might need to break out a parser and get to work myself. Lack of materia from my carp leveling up (spiritbond is so slow on lowbies) and lack of materia in the wards hasn't given me much help with double melding gear otherwise I'd be able to do some better testing.