Pugilist

[Grey Jorildyn]

I'm currently using the following setup to tank with. This is the base for tanking Great Buffalo, but I have done other mobs like this without issue as well.

Gear
Main: Jade Hora +2
Head: Silver Tricorne +1
Body: Alpine War Jacket
Hands: Mitts of the Lone Knight
Legs: Tarred Leather Trousers (Blue) +1
Feet: Bladedancer's Jackboots
Waist: Penance
Rings: Silver Ring x2, Brass Ring
Neck: Mythril Choker

Abilities 64/64
Action Bar 1: Featherfoot II, Foresight II, Jarring Strike II, Fracture II, Diversion, Second Wind II, Invigorate II, Provoke II, Taunt II, Accomplice
Action Bar 2: Punishing Barbs, Emulate, Sentinel, Obsess II, Spiritbind, Siphon TP, Siphon MP II, Sacrifice III
Action Bar 3: Pummel, Light Strike, Twisting Vice, Flashfreeze II, Defender II

Sideboard Swaps:
Defender II > Hawk's Eye
Flashfreeze II > Simian Thrash
Spiritbind > Decoy
Twisting Vice > Barrage / Some other weapon skill
various other situational stuff.

Traits 24/24
Bowmanship
Prime Conditioning
Swordsmanship
Transcendence
Axemanship
Intimidation
Pikemanship
Complete Control

It's pretty god damn efficient as far as being a counter-tank goes. Coincidentally I am using the exact loadout for Marauder (swapping Axemanship out for Season Veteran and basic attacks for class appropriate ones). Perhaps we can bring some life to this thread by discussing specs a bit.

My questions: Are there any improvements I can make? Are there different, better DR, setups people are using to tank the dungeon or other stuff with? Thanks!

[Hiroishime]

No Disorient? it is pretty good for building hate, helps the PT overall and can easily replace hawk's eye imo.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Hawk's eye is for stacking with flashfreeze to incap buffalo. Total sideboard.

[Corrderio]

Have you noticed much of a difference between Bucc. Shirt and Alpine in terms of evasion rate? Not sure if I got unlucky or not but one night I was tanking the FNM buffalo and couldn't evade worth crap.

[miokomioko]

I wouldn't imagine that the 3 Dexterity on Alpine War Jacket would make up for its 3 less Evasion than Buccaneer's Shirt.

[Corrderio]

Damn it's only 3 EVA? Thought it was more.

[miokomioko]

The current best evasion body piece in the game for DoW is Poacher's Tunic... unless something else's HQ version is capable of beating 36 Evasion and 4 Dexterity that I don't know of. Too bad the defense becomes an issue when tanking things that will most likely hit you hard sooner or later.

edit: It looks like a Toadskin Harness +3 might be capable of outperforming everything else, evasion wise. 35 Evasion and 6 Dexterity base stats.

[Seravi Edalborez]

So as outclassed as PGL is for Ifrit and Moogle currently, I found it did pretty well in Strongholds if only because beast kings don't have 100% stun resistance. Whenever adds weren't up I'd Taunt the main NM to give the tank 1-2 hits of breather room and a chance at Haymaker stun. Heavy Thrust from LNC and Pounce are also good stun options, and Pounce>Demolish provides an additional Dispel to CON's Aerora. Damage is respectable IMO but I don't really have hard numbers vs others, just a general consensus that it did ok.

With earthfists I wasn't taking damage much worse than a MRD, and MP was able to hold for the fight's entirety without Sucker Punch (though it doesn't hurt when heavy hitter WS are down).

When tanking adds on your own though you have to be pretty good at "solo" comboing, as far as directionals go. If you haven't tried much yet, practice up with timing your WS as your model reaches the rear/side but not too early or late or too short or too far. Front and rear seem to have much more generous cone sizes than L/R. Also have to keep in mind some mobs (ie Drakes) only turn facing when executing WS.

[miokomioko]

I'm mostly curious to see testing results on INT vs STR with and without elemental stances active before I start spending shitloads of seals or start melding materias. However, I'm currently too lazy to do much other than fish...

[Almalexia]

So as outclassed as PGL is for Ifrit and Moogle currently

I don't understand. Why do you think PGL is outclassed on Ifrit? I understand Moogle, but Ifrit is a static target and PGL's best WS combos from the rear. You even get a little MP regen during jumps. The only way Ifrit could be a more ideal PGL target would be to make him squishier for Sucker Punch.

I'm mostly curious to see testing results on INT vs STR with and without elemental stances active before I start spending shitloads of seals or start melding materias. However, I'm currently too lazy to do much other than fish...

Keep fishing.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Instead of outclassed I'll say "unwanted" or "undesirable". There are extraordinary PGLs I'm sure; I'm speaking in general. In all honesty I haven't been able to try PGL on either of those fights because I usually go CON or GLA.

Something that I forgot to mention in passing notice, PGL's current direction reminds me of SE's original intent for Ninja in XI: a sort of secondary tank (players made it a primary tank at the time) with some debuff power. Throw in solid damage and crowd control (stun, Sap when Monk hits), you have PGL.

[miokomioko]

The only way Ifrit could be a more ideal PGL target would be to make him squishier for Sucker Punch.

Or, you know, not have him spam an AoE that a Pugilist can't melee outside of. I've tried to Pugilize him a few times and it's just sub-par to Lancer just because of Sear, plain and simple. The damage is there, which I wish people would realize, but the MP sponge is also there... so it is definitely undesirable in comparison to the vastly available Lancers out there. Not to mention, being closer than the Lancers behind them, a Pugilist will most likely get hit by Eruptions they have to run further through.

Also, I'm kinda' sad that STR is still the preferred stat for hand-to-hand, even with Fists of Earth/Fire. I was hoping for a little variety for a melee for once.

[Almalexia]

I was thinking in terms of damage alone, but that is a fair point: Sear is inconvenient for PGL. I don't think it destabilizes any Ifrit strategy (in 1.19 or 1.20) but PGL is better left out if optimizing for the fight. Incidentally, so are all the other melee: THM currently wipes the floor with them.

I have not found Eruption to be any more difficult to navigate around as PGL than LNC. Below 25%, everyone anticipates ground effects and will already be on the move by the time Eruption begins. Also, starting so close to Ifrit, I could run diagonally instead of straight backwards and avoid the other melee Eruptions most of the time.

[Elcura]

The only differences between melee play is how far you can be without getting hit by sear, as avoiding attacks is the same on all jobs. With the combo system now even LNCs will get hit if they go for side combos and aren't careful.

I think if you're going to bring a melee job, it can be any melee job. I really think it doesn't matter any more.

[Enygma55]

2 CONS should have absolutely no MP issues curing everyone in an Ifrit fight. With the amount of MP you can regen, I wouldnt see a problem curing 5 PGL eating sears. As long as everyone can avoid most of the Eruptions. Sometimes its even better to let people die and raise with full HP. Why cure someone for 1k when you can raise them for 3k+

I haven't done Ifrit 1.20 but with how much MP I can maintain in the Moogle battle where you're constantly running around not naturally regen'n MP, Ifrit should be cake. Certain jobs do make the fight easier but I'm positive any melee setup will work for Ifrit or Moogles given people have enough skill/knowledge of the fight.

[miokomioko]

Certain jobs do make the fight easier

Unfortunately this is all it takes for people to act retarded about their party setups.

[Hiroishime]

2 CONS should have absolutely no MP issues curing everyone in an Ifrit fight. With the amount of MP you can regen, I wouldnt see a problem curing 5 PGL eating sears. As long as everyone can avoid most of the Eruptions. Sometimes its even better to let people die and raise with full HP. Why cure someone for 1k when you can raise them for 3k+

I haven't done Ifrit 1.20 but with how much MP I can maintain in the Moogle battle where you're constantly running around not naturally regen'n MP, Ifrit should be cake. Certain jobs do make the fight easier but I'm positive any melee setup will work for Ifrit or Moogles given people have enough skill/knowledge of the fight.

The only issues i see with that is the mages has more chances to get stuck in eruption due to constant curing needed, although this can be countered with PGL that knows how to cycle sacred+stoneskin, but most players that plays DPS only cares about their parser numbers than actually tryin to keep their party alive.

[Enygma55]

Any decent CON familiar with the fight will develop their cure timing to avoid eruptions. Letting melee drop to 900 HP is ok in my book as long as they dont die. Second Wind should be reserved for situations where the CONS are avoiding eruptions. You dont have to keep everyone capped all the time.

Forgot the fact that everyone has the ability to AOE stoneskin (once obtained). That alone should be hax. Melee who act as MP sponge in sacrifice to pump up their parser numbers should be shot. (or left to die for a min if I was the CON)

[azwethinkweiz]

This conversation has also been going on in the official Ifrit thread of the forums for a bit.
I must admit that once Ifrit goes into his later stages and is spamming skills more often, the opportunities to WS/chain on him become less, and the danger of doing so greater. On one of my runs last night I was unable to inflict any serious damage on him for a good while, as he kept spamming cracks and jumping. The ARC and THM were of course still able to hit him, though. After he settled down I was able to put in quite a bit of damage, but the opportunities to do so were extremely random, and the entire period I was just standing there in the middle was essentially wasted time.
Also, regarding taking damage from Sear, I rarely receive cures from CNJ yet can still keep myself alive throughout the entire fight.
I would argue instead that his other skills, aside from Sear, are what keep PGL from being able to damage him effectively and consistently for the duration of the fight. If you're too far forward AA-ing you risk summoning things on the tank, and as someone else stated, when running from cracks you may end-up getting caught in the middle of the arena while all the other DDs have already fled to the back.

[miokomioko]

as someone else stated, when running from cracks you may end-up getting caught in the middle of the arena while all the other DDs have already fled to the back.

I think this is the primary issue considering that any PGL will probably be meleeing alongside a few Lancers or maybe a Marauder... all of which will be standing further away. When cracks appear under them, the PGL has to either run extra far, or at a weird angle towards mages to get out of it.