FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread V: No one told me beta would have problems in it

[mastamind]

I hope they change the craft leve npc or the current leve timer.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Not sure how they'll balance it. Like a few have already said, you can grind teal mobs solo, but as soon as you party up you burn through them for less xp. You try to kill VT-IT mobs in a party, and they 1-2 shot the tank. Needs some utsusemi right about now...!

[Purrrfect]

Not sure how they'll balance it. Like a few have already said, you can grind teal mobs solo, but as soon as you party up you burn through them for less xp. You try to kill VT-IT mobs in a party, and they 1-2 shot the tank. Needs some utsusemi right about now...!

Adjust the level difference calculations to curve higher level mob attack power down a little?

[supercoco]

i guess it is a server update, because our client's update is smaller than the last one

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Adjust the level difference calculations to curve higher level mob attack power down a little?

Sounds too easy. It can't be that easy!

[Shuichi]

I posted in the other announcement thread buuuut I'll put it here too:

Phase 2 of beta testing commences 19:00 (PDT) Wednesday, July 28, and servers will be online 24/7

Game time folks!

Oh shit. Time for some crack! Wanna buy a cheeseburger?

[Vimes]

I think I can say I agree with all of this. Maybe, what they need is some kind of system behind the scenes that will dynamically adjust monsters based on your current party/level(s).

Hehe, the funny thing is, I suspect this kind of scaling is already in guildleves. But no one is really testing it since people seem to prefer to do GL's solo (and since the availability is so limited). No one is making PT's of 10-15 members and seeing how the GL system scales during leve sharing.

I think GL do scale. We did a Lv10 GL but one of us switched to a Lv1 class before it. We picked 3 stars and the mobs were way too easy (and crap XP). Before switching classes when we were all around Lv10 we did another GL on 3 stars and it was just the right difficulty.

[Lucavi]

Adjust the level difference calculations to curve higher level mob attack power down a little?

I don't think the solution is that easy... they could do it, but then you'd run into problems down the road.

I'm not calling SE out on this, because honestly, NO MMORPG has perfectly balanced field mobs to both provide good solo and good party xp. You have MMOGs like Dungeon Siege II and whatnot, where the more people party, the more xp everyone gets, but even then, those fights pretty much revolve around slaughtering mobs effortlessly on the way to a boss. The genres are completely different, even though they both feature sword and board combat.

Personally, I'd like to see a fusion of instances/leves. Unlock the armor choices for heavy classes to get people ready and adjusted to tanking mobs in a party setting, increase the monster HP for mobs that con yellow and orange, lower their attack slightly (if the tank has 430 health, the monsters should hit no harder than 65-85 to an appropriately geared tank, WITHOUT counting shield blocks/parrys), and slightly increase the amount of monster hp for turquoise mobs.

If they're going to design a system around damage dealt = class points, then they need to make mobs like punching bags: relatively low defense, but lots of life and decent attack to make up for it. Mobs relative to your level shouldn't die solo to you in 5 hits like in other MMOs, but they shouldn't be absolutely curb-stomping you either. A squishy mob makes for a longer fight that people will enjoy in solo OR party dynamics because they know that the longer that mob lasts, the harder they can hit it (promoting the use of more skills) and the more class xp they'll receive (promoting more of an interest in grinding).

SE doesn't have to speed up the actual leveling process, but they do need to dangle more of a carrot on the stick for us. If the fights last longer, yet we receive more class XP as a result, it cuts down or outright eliminates many problems, such as overcrowding, mob scarcity, and that grindy feeling of plowing through 10 mobs in 3 minutes without anything to show for it.

Vimes: The biggest reason I do 1 star leves is because of server instability. When we crash, we lose all progress on the leves. When there's new gear on the line (upgrades or otherwise - gear = money if you sell it), I don't want anything getting in the way of me getting that gear. I used to run around killing mobs for more class skill points or treasure hunting for chests - I stopped all of that when I started crashing in the middle of leves and not having anything to show for it.

I know if they fixed the random leve crashes, I'd be more inclined to do them in a massive war band setting.

[Heslon]

i heard there is a ability which makes you use tp instand of mp for spells is that true? which lvl/job is it?

no one knows this? pls pm if it isnt allowed to post etc. thx

[SephYuyX]

I hope they added many a new things to test out, else all I need is about 2hrs a day to play, 24/7 bleh. Id rather not grind on a character that will end up being erased.

[Hyan]

Hear me out for a second.

Good analysis. What would you think about this, then:

If monster strength is currently based on the strength of one player, and they kept it like this, but would make guildleves a reasonable way to exp in a group setting (by adjusting the strength of the mobs to which would suit party play) and also made it more beneficial activity as far as exp/hr goes, would that fix the issue?

Right now this just isn't the case, but if something had to be adjusted, I think it should be the GL system. Also, because a soloer is limited to 8 leves/2 days while a group can theoretically do as many leves as they want, it would make sense to give the soloers some kind of alternative as far as grinding goes (if they don't want to duo or something).

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly they want to accomplish here, for fun if nothing else.

I hope they added many a new things to test out, else all I need is about 2hrs a day to play, 24/7 bleh. Id rather not grind on a character that will end up being erased.

2h sounds like too much already for me at least. I'm not planning on getting a burn out during the beta phase making the retail version more of a bore than it'll already be considering my exp with the beta >_>.

[SephYuyX]

2h sounds like too much already for me at least. I'm not planning on getting a burn out during the beta phase making the retail version more of a bore than it'll already be considering my exp with the beta >_>.

True nuff, thats why I hate playing betas as it kills my fun for th real game. Lucky SE is pretty smart with these things and only lets a small portion to be playable. But yeah, I think I logged in around noon yesterday, did a couple leves, crafted, killed a couple mobs, stopped, then went back to XI lol.

[Lucavi]

Trying to gather my thoughts here in response.... okay.

If they keep things as they are right now, then yes, your theory would hold water in terms of leves being useful for partying, if we could actually do more than 8 a day, and if they scaled them properly. I have 2 problems with that system, though:

1) At what star rank does the game assume that your group has a proper party set up? Tank, healer, the rest being DPS. If they start scaling and jack up the mob's attack too early, it could wipe out a trio of mages or pugs that just want to group up together to get shit done. Leves could turn out to be as restrictive as traditional FFXI partying, where you MUST have some form of utsu and a refresher or no-go.

2) They'd still have to balance the mobs in the field better, because as of now, the only people that can reliably solo with any semblance of speed are physical DPS that have a method of health regeneration. Lancers rape because there are lots of flyers out there, they have access to a decent weapon for the level, and speed surge. Lancers eventually rape because of the wtfawesome feint and from grabbing the heavy armor in the level 30 leves. I haven't seen any 20+ mages, archers, or really, anyone that wasn't a glad/lanc/pug, so I can't say if this current solo-friendly method will actually hold water.

Again, forgive me, but in WoW, solo mobs die FAST. Very, very fast. As a fire mage (and a super-well geared one, because I crafted like a demon to make my own shit), the average mob at my level (50) died in a rotation of 3 spells. Its a completely different world, though - you need to kill dozens of mobs in rapid succession to stack up the XP.

Not only is that not the case in FFXIV currently (and shouldn't be), but that system wouldn't work anyway. Not every job has current access to enough meaty damage abilities to burn down level 20 mobs right now that hit for a metric ton of damage. I've got 418 hp as a 21 Lancer and christ, these human bastards are hitting me for 90 physical and 180 specials - and they con turqoise! Some of them con blue!

I'd rather see a slight slide to the FFXI style (not a complete one, mind you; no more over reliance on evading damage instead of gritting through it with a manly shield or thick armor) where your best option for XP (IE. fastest) is in a group. They simply need to designate areas (either entire zones or clumps on each zone) of mobs that are best for solo, best for a small party, and best for a big party.

It takes more work on their end, but if they can please a large majority of players with different play styles, they'll get more of the precious subscriptions they seek.

[Destinye]

True nuff, thats why I hate playing betas as it kills my fun for th real game. Lucky SE is pretty smart with these things and only lets a small portion to be playable. But yeah, I think I logged in around noon yesterday, did a couple leves, crafted, killed a couple mobs, stopped, then went back to XI lol.

^ I did some leveling, did crafting, did a ton of botany shit, tried to break the game and went and did Einherjar, Dynamis and Limbus ;o

[Hyan]

1) At what star rank does the game assume that your group has a proper party set up? Tank, healer, the rest being DPS. If they start scaling and jack up the mob's attack too early, it could wipe out a trio of mages or pugs that just want to group up together to get shit done. Leves could turn out to be as restrictive as traditional FFXI partying, where you MUST have some form of utsu and a refresher or no-go.

What if everyone was a hybrid of some kind?

2) They'd still have to balance the mobs in the field better, because as of now, the only people that can reliably solo with any semblance of speed are physical DPS that have a method of health regeneration. Lancers rape because there are lots of flyers out there, they have access to a decent weapon for the level, and speed surge. Lancers eventually rape because of the wtfawesome feint and from grabbing the heavy armor in the level 30 leves. I haven't seen any 20+ mages, archers, or really, anyone that wasn't a glad/lanc/pug, so I can't say if this current solo-friendly method will actually hold water.

Couldn't that also be because, as far as I know, INT does nothing at all? I mean what you say could be true, but I'd still like to see what "unnerfed" mages can do. Although- MP would still be a problem, if the exping doesn't happen by roaming from aetheryte to another.

[Lucavi]

1) If everyone's a hybrid, I guess there's no problem. I'm no hybrid, yet, though: I've just plowed through as a pure Lancer, but tonight I'll level something else on the side.

2) I want to see unnerfed mages as well! I hate seeing any job that can't hold its own, or isn't being allowed to hold its own. I'm hoping tonight's changes really redefine some of the jobs in this game. I'm ready to see a closer version to retail than what we currently have, and I'm sure SE realizes that I'm not alone.

[Destinye]

Despite what people feel they believe the stats in general aren't at all fine tuned. Every RPG including P&P, MUD and GUI based I've played since the mid 80s stats were properly scaled and in this game..at this point in time it's safe to say the stats aren't fully doing what they should for most classes atm. The most blatantly obvious of course is for the magic users.

Unnerfed mages destroyed everything. Period. It was like 2002 BLM in XI lol.

[Kurokikaze]

Wait its confirmed that it'll be a version update? Like mass patches tonight? :O

And yeah stats aren't working correctly. Its probably why WS are so weak now compared to Beta.

[sruon]

Wait its confirmed that it'll be a version update? Like mass patches tonight? :O

And yeah stats aren't working correctly. Its probably why WS are so weak now compared to Beta.

Don't think so but my point of view is that Phase 1 was purely aimed at stability and that now we'll see a lot more gameplay tweaks. Which is more than welcome.

[Loaar]

I would imagine all the stuff they listed on the beta site under "Planned Changes" or whatever it was.

I'm pretty sure in the recent interview with the beta phases question, they said that beta 1 and 2 would only differ in that beta 2 would be 24/7.

I think any additional updates will be in beta 3, which is due sometime in August? Could be 3 days, could be 3 weeks.

Hear me out for a second.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but all the discussion is based on the assumption that SE haven't already balanced all this out. I find it very hard to believe SE are planning to add a bunch of new character progression (like traits), fix bugs with classes and stats, and completely balance both classes and party vs solo play in a matter of weeks with a deadline looming.

I personally think its all done already, they are just pretending to be playing with a pair of sevens when they actually have a full house.

Lets face it, who here, who has been in since the early alpha, thinks the test is actually testing anything except the servers, and what happens to their code when 1,000 people all try to click the Bearded Rock Aetheryte at once?

EDIT: In five months of testing, not once has there been a feedback thread about balance or classes. People can quote their emails asking them to give feedback about balance til they are blue in the face, but on the test forums there is no section for it for a reason imo.

Or do people actually think they care that the retainer system we can see looks horribly limited, when they already announced its part of their payment plan?