FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread V: No one told me beta would have problems in it

[mintyice]

I'd call that fast, especially since you can solo level. Levelling in XI took ages early on, with 3k EXP per hour seen as a good party and 2k being all too common. You'll have some hardcore people playing for 35 hours of the first 48 and presuming the first 15 levels are faster than 1-2 hours per level there will be people past 30 after two days. There might even be people at the level cap by the time the standard version is released. I wouldn't be surprised if EXP is adjusted again because that's too fast.

I can't decide which route to take to get an advantage on the economy. Rushing to cap lets you farm high level items with little competition while crafting lots at the start has its pros too.

Crazy thought: how about enjoying the game?

[Spork]

I still can't understand what was the whole point of making physical levels so easy to come by. You can only level it once for god's sake, they should make it raise at least three times slower than skill ranks >_> Also gives people time to think about their stat allocation further than just for their first class.

I still don't understand the point of physical levels in general. Maybe one of you beta testers can explain how it adds to the game, but from the sidelines I just see it as something that hinders one of the games major selling points... the Armory System.

The major feature of this game is the ability to quickly change classes by changing your weapon; yet if you change from a melee to mage class you need to re-spec all your stat points, and from what I gather you can only re-spec a small chunk of your points at a time and on a cool down.

The whole Idea behind physical levels kinda makes me facepalm.

Edit: hah CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon beat me to it.

[Hyan]

why not just allow you to distribute stats to class rank and have it saved as you progress.

Because if they did that it would basically be the same thing as if there wasn't stat allocation at all. There would be one right build, and everything else would be the wrong build.

The way it seems to be working right now is that making a balanced character is much better than making a specialized character. This is the only way I can see the stat allocation working. Changing classes on the fly seems to be possible and maybe even encouraged, although not mid-fight. Being an all rounder that can switch tasks easily and still be good at his jobs should be better than specializing in one job, even if you'd be marginally better at it (with diminishing returns).

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Because if they did that it would basically be the same thing as if there wasn't stat allocation at all. There would be one right build, and everything else would be the wrong build.

The way it seems to be working right now is that making a balanced character is much better than making a specialized character. This is the only way I can see the stat allocation working. Changing classes on the fly seems to be possible and maybe even encouraged, although not mid-fight. Being an all rounder that can switch tasks easily and still be good at his jobs should be better than specializing in one job, even if you'd be marginally better at it (with diminishing returns).

Eh I see where you're coming from, but it's still going to happen. You'll have cookie cutter build A that will be good for Lancer/marauder/other melee and possibly gladiator, and cookie cutter B that will be good for con/thaum; etc. I mean, you'll always have cookie cutter builds no matter what, but I just see this is limiting, maybe because I played XI. If there's going to be an endgame anything similar to XI where you have to squeeze out stats to keep resists down or do more dmg or take less dmg, you'll have people specifically playing one class with dedicated stats all the time, unable to switch "on the fly" to another one because of their stat allocations. I guess we'll just have to see where the game goes. THey said it'll be casual, yet provide a challenging endgame like ffxi. Under this system I just see casual players with 'well rounded builds' never doing most endgame because they're not strong enough, or people that are hardcore endgame just sticking to one or maybe two classes, so long as they're either melee or mage just because the stats compliment each other.

Edit: The only way I can see it working out is with diminishing returns or a stat point cap. This way as we reach a certain threshold or a cap, we're forced to distribute points elsewhere. Depending on this cap/threshold there's a possibility that we'll obtain enough points to justify allocating stat points in another area so that a 'well rounded' player might be the way to go?

[Hyan]

Definitely, but this way there is room for at least some freedom, if only from the way you build your character (you could strengthen one of your classes more than the other, if you wished- and so could everyone else, making as many combinations as there are classes. Not a complete freedom, but more than if every class had it's own stat allocation, in which case there would be no freedom at all.)

Casuals will probably get their own endgame in where having multiple classes is not needed, while the hardest endgame encounters might be adjusted for the possibility that you have a good set-up for that particular encounter, while not making it an impossibility to clear it with an unorthodox set-up. Maybe a bit like Salvage, where you can do more stuff with the time given to you if you're skilled enough, while not excluding those who are worse at it. Something like that.

[Esse]

Under this system I just see casual players with 'well rounded builds' never doing most endgame because they're not strong enough, or people that are hardcore endgame just sticking to one or maybe two classes, so long as they're either melee or mage just because the stats compliment each other.

I concur, although I think it depends how they balance the end game content when it comes to group sizes. As the group sizes get larger, the individuals will become more specialized. However, if there is challenging small group content, it would seem that switching on the fly would be advantageous. If they keep the small group content rewarding and stat re-allocation rare, i can see the majority of players opting for a balanced stat allocation. It would really make item distribution a nightmare, though.

[BlackheartX]

oh I sat n punched skeletons for a good 2 levels, they don't really seem to be taking any extra damage from hitting any other flying like for example fly's, although sea puks took a bit extra damage compared to everything else I was punching.

also I've not seen many mages kite.. namely because vs a red mob all they do is get 100% resist, silverbreeze can tell you all about trying to land anything on a red con'ed mob!

I don't know what to say to that besides "BETA EXCUSE!!" and hope that it doesn't turn into "First Month of Retail Excuse". Or I could say "Silverbreeze is doing it wrong", which may not be true but it's simpler to discount rather than there being something wrong with mages or the game in general.

[Lucavi]

I'm not sure if that's good or bad. As long as there are no items at low level that high level people would want, I don't see a big problem in getting lot more money from the higher level leves. Obviously the price of high level items will adjust accordingly.

Although the in-game economy is such a massive concept that I might be missing something.

This. The amount of money means nothing so long as its balanced in terms of how much it takes to buy something. If armor in stores costs from 4-40,000, then it doesn't matter if we're bringing in 3-8k a leve. If armor in the stores costs from 14-85k, then it doesn't matter if we're bringing in 10-25k a leve.

People cry so much about money, but honestly, more money just leads to larger prices for gear, which will be established as the standard within a few months. Just because you only have 3k to show for a year's worth of farming doesn't mean you're poor if the most expensive thing you wanted to buy was 2k, and likewise, it doesn't matter if you bring in 200k if what you wanted to buy is worth 300k.

No matter how much or how little cash we actually end up in our grubby palms, the day that someone breaks the proverbial wall down and figures out how to craft FFXIV's version of a scorp harness, you're all going to be paying out the ass anyway. If the economy is balanced around 10k = rich, that SH is going to cost 20k. If the economy is balanced around being 100k = rich, that SH is going to cost 200k. People, not the game world, determine the prices on crafted goods in a game like this, unless there are game-regulated prices for needed items, like the Chopper in WoW costing at least 13k gold.

Why does it matter if someone is able to get 15 gold a fight from a farmable mob when that which they want costs at least 13k?

Personally, I'd rather deal with more money than less. It seems laughable to kill a mid-level humanoid and have him drop 20 gil, even if 75 gil is enough to purchase a potion.

[BlackheartX]

Crazy thought: how about enjoying the game?

You know a lot of people will be racing to the top for some type of advantage or monopoly of w/e may be at endgame over the rest of the player-base. Probably the same people from XI that made endgame so "unique and fun". Or maybe lfhalfhflhdaidihaxxisisssxiv and dlhkldshljdhljdahjldfdjoooo will be there first.

[Lucavi]

You know a lot of people will be racing to the top for some type of advantage or monopoly of w/e may be at endgame over the rest of the player-base. Probably the same people from XI that made endgame so "unique and fun". Or maybe lfhalfhflhdaidihaxxisisssxiv and dlhkldshljdhljdahjldfdjoooo will be there first.

Enjoyment is relative to the person. One man's enjoyment is helping others while leveling. Another man's enjoyment is racing to max craft cap to churn out gear and strangle the market with astronomical prices.

I detest it when people leave blanket statements like "play to have fun". It sounds like an attempt to troll more than anything else.

[BlackheartX]

Definitely, but this way there is room for at least some freedom, if only from the way you build your character (you could strengthen one of your classes more than the other, if you wished- and so could everyone else, making as many combinations as there are classes. Not a complete freedom, but more than if every class had it's own stat allocation, in which case there would be no freedom at all.)

Casuals will probably get their own endgame in where having multiple classes is not needed, while the hardest endgame encounters might be adjusted for the possibility that you have a good set-up for that particular encounter, while not making it an impossibility to clear it with an unorthodox set-up. Maybe a bit like Salvage, where you can do more stuff with the time given to you if you're skilled enough, while not excluding those who are worse at it. Something like that.

We'll see what stats end up being when retail hits. However right now in the context you just gave it makes stats little more than a mini-game. Maybe not right away but eventually no matter what the situation when the parse elites figure it out there will always be a way of doing it wrong. Unless there is some arbitrary unfreedom judging how much better you can actually be over someone else with similar skills but not the same stat allocation. Which just marginalize people to the point of who can press buttons faster and who does .1% more damage. I personally just see stats being a static gear swap and nothing more. I'm fighting Fireman I better dump some points in fire resist ect...

[mintyice]

Wouldn't it be funny if this game sucks when it comes out? That's like my greatest fear at the moment. XI was so good in it's heyday that I don't know if 14 can live up to the hype.

[Zounder]

Because if they did that it would basically be the same thing as if there wasn't stat allocation at all. There would be one right build, and everything else would be the wrong build.

The way it seems to be working right now is that making a balanced character is much better than making a specialized character. This is the only way I can see the stat allocation working. Changing classes on the fly seems to be possible and maybe even encouraged, although not mid-fight. Being an all rounder that can switch tasks easily and still be good at his jobs should be better than specializing in one job, even if you'd be marginally better at it (with diminishing returns).

Well, there's stat reallocating, right? In the beta it was limited (I think, if it wasn't then disregard this whole post), but given the fact that they talk so much about being able to switch classes on the fly (they have a whole page on the site dedicated to it), I'm presuming that in retail you'll be able to reallocate everything, every so often (given whatever time constraint). That would allow for changing from magic to war on the fly. Then it comes back to the initial suggestion of the game remembering the stat allocation for each class when you switch.

If they keep it as only a partial re-allocation... I see that as a major mistake. A major selling point of both this and FFXI is the fact that you can do anything on a single character. Regardless of how you feel about casual/hardcore, balance/focused stats, endgame WILL require a dedicated stat allocation for each class. If there's only partial reallocation, no player can enjoy having both a dedicated DoW AND DoM.

Now, I'm no linkshell leader, but if I was I like to think I wouldn't be crazy about how people handled their stats, but it may get to the point where some mobs will be so hard that you'll NEED a proper setup.

But who knows, maybe all these stats end up having minimal effect, in which case all of this doesn't really matter.

[BlackheartX]

Wouldn't it be funny if this game sucks when it comes out? That's like my greatest fear at the moment. XI was so good in it's heyday that I don't know if 14 can live up to the hype.

If it stays the same as XI in this day and age it will suck. If you're drunk off nostalgia and it stays the same it will be the best game ever. Really depends on what not sucking is to you.

@Lucavi
That's absolutely true, however if there is another bottleneck, those who make it to the top and exploit it at the expense of rest of us will have some pretty annoying effects that will reverberate out from their "King of the Hill" gesticulating and subsequent exploitation. However that makes the assumption that there will be a bottleneck that is able to be monopolized to the point of detriment to the majority of peoples enjoyment (however that enjoyment is manifest). I personally fell comfortable in that assumption.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Wouldn't it be funny if this game sucks when it comes out? That's like my greatest fear at the moment. XI was so good in it's heyday that I don't know if 14 can live up to the hype.

My fear too. I mean I have faith in SE BECAUSE of XI. But now that I think about it... that's not really all that much to go on lol. Guess we'll see how it all plays out next month. Hoping phase 3 will change a bunch of things for the better and give a better idea of how release will pan out. I assume we'll be limited to LL again, but it would be nice to see a bit more content.

[mintyice]

If it stays the same as XI in this day and age it will suck. If you're drunk off nostalgia and it stays the same it will be the best game ever. Really depends on what not sucking is to you.

I just hope it's enjoyable. Yeah, XI is good because of nostalgia, but there were so many shitty moments too.

[Crazyd]

FFXI worries - Honestly I have RNG nerf fear as well after getting all the way to 70.

FFXI had it's issues, yet so does every MMO out there... honestly I have some faith in SE... They set the bar for very many things as far as MMO's go. WOW didn't have a party system as good as FFXI till within a year ago.

That's a long time for a Game not to have decent PT system... FFXI has some really good traits... hopefully they can build on those traits and learn from others. The graphics do remind everyone of FFXI, but the game has some vast differences.

I've enjoyed the game so far and I'm sure Beta leveling is easier than final version leveling... They have to let us level to the point where we can do and use most of the options in the game to test them all out.

It's Beta guys... one thing for sure it's going to have issues... and to think NA didn't get FFXI till after first expansion.

Stats... well... I don't know what to say about them... Only being able to Reallocate one level's worth of stats is kinda gay... unless they make a pay to reset system. If they do that then I'm down with it... reset them and do other things if you want then reset back when you want to go play melee classes.

[Soap]

Stats... well... I don't know what to say about them... Only being able to Reallocate one level's worth of stats is kinda gay... unless they make a pay to reset system. If they do that then I'm down with it... reset them and do other things if you want then reset back when you want to go play melee classes.

You can reallocate all of your stats, But you can only do a portion every hour. Takes about 5 hours to fully reallocate them. I went from 81 STR, 82 VIT and 15 everything else, to 82 MND, 81 PIE in a few hours.

[Vuitton]

Astral Ring exploitation 2.0 go go go go go!

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Astral Ring exploitation 2.0 go go go go go!

One of my fondest memories of XI. Got to 60~ thf and just banked for a while. The day they patched it I almost cried.