FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread V: No one told me beta would have problems in it

[Crazyd]

I don't think they want to encourage swapping classes mid-fight, but they can implement a lot of different types of monsters in a single event that each need a different set-up to kill fast.

But in the end it's like you said; before we know the scope of the mechanics I don't think we should tell them to change anything. If it works like I described it sounds good to me, but if there are no soft caps/diminishing returns and stats affect your class a lot more than your equipment does, the system as it is wouldn't work.

Diminishing Returns are usually a valid thing in most MMO's I've seen... plus it may just get too expensive to buy +1 STR = 10 points.

[Loaar]

I don't think they want to encourage swapping classes mid-fight, but they can implement a lot of different types of monsters in a single event that each need a different set-up to kill fast.

But in the end it's like you said; before we know the scope of the mechanics I don't think we should tell them to change anything. If it works like I described it sounds good to me, but if there are no soft caps/diminishing returns and stats affect your class a lot more than your equipment does, the system as it is wouldn't work.

I doubt they want people swapping jobs to kill normal mobs on the fly, but they have specifically included a 30 second debuff on swapping gear for a reason. For an exp party its not worth it, but on a 30minute boss fight 30seconds of downtime to be effective again during the next 5 minutes is worth the effort imo.

[Zounder]

@meonline: I guess you're suggesting SE has tweaked the system this time around to allow for such hybrid parties, in which case, we'll have to see. Your example, in theory, can be applied to FFXI as well, and we all know that a party of hybrids was not possible, but if the system is different then your scenario could very well be possible in XIV.

Regardless, I'm all for balanced specs being viable, not only because it allows for Dom/DoW switching but also because it also helps those who wanna spec for both soloing and partying.

[Loaar]

@meonline: I guess you're suggesting SE has tweaked the system this time around to allow for such hybrid parties, in which case, we'll have to see. Your example, in theory, can be applied to FFXI as well, and we all know that a party of hybrids was not possible, but if the system is different then your scenario could very well be possible in XIV.

Regardless, I'm all for balanced specs being viable, not only because it allows for Dom/DoW switching but also because it also helps those who wanna spec for both soloing and partying.

Honestly, I have no idea what the system is going to be, I'm just trying to think outside the box a little.

The current system is stupidly restrictive and counter productive to the ability to swap jobs anywhere at (almost) anytime. Its also at odds with their decision to charge $3 for a 2nd character.

There simply has to be more to it than we can see.

[Hyan]

@meonline: I guess you're suggesting SE has tweaked the system this time around to allow for such hybrid parties, in which case, we'll have to see. Your example, in theory, can be applied to FFXI as well, and we all know that a party of hybrids was not possible, but if the system is different then your scenario could very well be possible in XIV.

I think this can't be applied to XI, since you have to go to your mog house to change jobs. You can't do this during many events, and it would take long time to do so even if you can.

It's like comparing a WAR with adaman hauby and 5 STR merits and a WAR with hauby +1 and no STR merits. Anything WAR A can do, WAR B can do too. Only this time, WAR B could swap to his similarly "geared" BLM and be effective while WAR A's BLM would suck so he would be stuck to using his WAR, pretty much.

The current problem I see with the system is that PL raises too fast, and because the system would require the player to think ahead a bit, it would be even more beneficial if PL's raised a lot slower than SR's do. Right now before you even think of leveling something else, you have capped your PL already and reallocating stats is not the simpliest task.

[Yoli]

I don't see how having multiple jobs workable at 85 or 90% flexibility makes you more valuable than having a single job working at 100% (assuming you also still leveled up all the others, so you can grab whatever the best set of abilities is).

Excluding times when you need job "x", and no on in the ls has it. In times like that it would certainly be super convenient if someone was able to swap to a sub par bard (or whatever). But convenient isn't (necessarily) the same as being the most valuable set up.

Assuming that hard-core people would choose a bunch of characters working sub par rather than a single job they enjoy and can do better than anyone who hasn't committed fully to one single job b/c of diminishing returns is an argument I don't buy.

That said... this is also the only reason I see for the system. It allows people to commit to something with diminishing returns and be the best in that class if they are willing to sacrifice the ability to reasonably play everything else. Beyond that, the way its set up doesn't seem to encourage quick swapping of jobs (ffxi's system was simpler, faster, and better at that), and it looks like a bit of a headache in general if you plan on switching around a lot.

Still, it keeps the option to switch around eventually, should you no longer enjoy being 100% committed to your pugilist (or w/e), which is great. And if other people want a less 100% approach, they'll be able to quick swap between jobs (it seems) almost as efficiently as in ffxi, while getting a bit more customization. And beating 95%+ of the games content with an alliance working at 85% efficiency might not be a pretty sight, but it's undoubtedly possible. Very very few things in ffxi or, I'd presume, in this game as well /require/ perfection. At best, it just speeds up a lot of things and makes the process look more stylish to any onlookers. Heck, the whole learning process proved that. You can beat jorm with pre-shield buff pld/war tanks and AA rotations if you so choose, right? So having a lot of people running around at less than 100% efficiency in order to swap between jobs they like isn't going to necessarily cripple anything.

[shaddix]

I don't see how having multiple jobs workable at 85 or 90% flexibility makes you more valuable than having a single job working at 100% (assuming you also still leveled up all the others, so you can grab whatever the best set of abilities is).

Excluding times when you need job "x", and no on in the ls has it. In times like that it would certainly be super convenient if someone was able to swap to a sub par bard (or whatever). But convenient isn't (necessarily) the same as being the most valuable set up.

Assuming that hard-core people would choose a bunch of characters working sub par rather than a single job they enjoy and can do better than anyone who hasn't committed fully to one single job b/c of diminishing returns is an argument I don't buy.

That said... this is also the only reason I see for the system. It allows people to commit to something with diminishing returns and be the best in that class if they are willing to sacrifice the ability to reasonably play everything else. Beyond that, the way its set up doesn't seem to encourage quick swapping of jobs (ffxi's system was simpler, faster, and better at that), and it looks like a bit of a headache in general if you plan on switching around a lot.

If being mediocre in all jobs is how to best play ff14, I don't think I'll be playing it for long

[Hyan]

I don't see how having multiple jobs workable at 85 or 90% flexibility makes you more valuable than having a single job working at 100% (assuming you also still leveled up all the others, so you can grab whatever the best set of abilities is).

If the events are set up that there will be a need for several set-ups, it is more valuable to have a 90% efficient nuking CON on a melee damage-immune mob than having a MAR.

Assuming that hard-core people would choose a bunch of characters working sub par rather than a single job they enjoy and can do better than anyone who hasn't committed fully to one single job b/c of diminishing returns is an argument I don't buy.

Hardcore people will do what is the most efficient choice.. and if the system is the way it is now, subpar classes are more efficient than specialized classes.

Beyond that, the way its set up doesn't seem to encourage quick swapping of jobs (ffxi's system was simpler, faster, and better at that), and it looks like a bit of a headache in general if you plan on switching around a lot.

All the system needs is a memory for equipment and skills. Aside from that, I have no idea how XI's system was simpler faster or better than just switching your weapon anywhere.

[plue]

If being mediocre in all jobs is how to best play ff14, I don't think I'll be playing it for long

Yea, it sounds like a pain in the ass leveling 10 jobs for all situations more than anything else. That and stat reallocation taking 10 hours if you don't make a hybrid character seems to defeat the purpose of their initial endeavor IMO.

[outzaidur]

Yea, it sounds like a pain in the ass leveling 10 jobs for all situations more than anything else. That and stat reallocation taking 10 hours if you don't make a hybrid character seems to defeat the purpose of their initial endeavor IMO.

I wouldn't mind having Sprint on all my jobs... and that is from Mining I think?

[Cayos]

Phase 3 is starting a little sooner than I expected.

Test Schedule

Tuesday, August 10,2010 from 19 :00 (PDT)

Beta test servers will be online 24 hours a day during phase 3 of the beta test.
Beta testers from any region will be able to log in at any time. Announcements for maintenance etc. will be posted in advance.

[Loaar]

If being mediocre in all jobs is how to best play ff14, I don't think I'll be playing it for long

Being useful to your party isn't being mediocre.

Beating content by having to think about your options before a fight isn't bad. If your idea of being "good" is getting the best gear, the optimal stats and skills, and facerolling to kill the mob then I can't say I care if SE designs a game you don't like.

Lets face it, whats the point in having content at all if you can zerg it down in 45 seconds with a bunch of K.Club DRKs? I don't ever want to play a game where there is one single "best" setup that can't be beaten. I want to be forced to think about the fights, and only win if you come prepared and play smart.

I'm not saying that some hybrid system is the good way to do it, but if thats the way SE designs it to get around the "ZOMG I can hit the mob for over 9000!!!" tossers then I'll get over it.

I wouldn't mind having Sprint on all my jobs... and that is from Mining I think?

Archer. At this stage, you can't use skills from DoL or DoH on DoW or DoM and vis versa.

Archer Rank 22: Quick Stride
TP Cost: 0
Action Cost: 3
Cooldown: TBC
Requires: Disciples of War, Disciples of Magic
Quick your stride, increase movement speed.

Phase 3 is starting a little sooner than I expected.

I love this part:

Numerous changes and improvements have been made to the Beta 3, based on the feedback submitted during phase 2 of the beta test.

Because they had time to recode things in the last 10 days.....

I wish they would just say "We have improved things using feedback from the last 5 months"

[Achitophel]

Yea, it sounds like a pain in the ass leveling 10 jobs for all situations more than anything else. That and stat reallocation taking 10 hours if you don't make a hybrid character seems to defeat the purpose of their initial endeavor IMO.

But that's what it will eventually be if the current system stays as is. And, to be honest, that's somewhat interesting. If the capish levels of virtually every job has an ability or two that is useful- although not necessary- for another job or two...well, as annoying as that would be to strive for, it would certainly be a nice feather in your cap and a nice sense of achievement to feel.

On a smaller scale, it'll be nice, in the early weeks/months, to be that Glad that has Defender, for example. You spent the time to work on your character to have a more complete set of abilities: it's an MMO, you're gonna be investing a lot of time over a long period of time to be exceptional anyway.

[Hyan]

Because they had time to recode things in the last 10 days.....

I wish they would just say "We have improved things using feedback from the last 5 months"

Nono, you don't get it. They mean phase 2 was the phase when they started reading all the beta and alpha feedback so far!

As far as the character progression system XIV uses goes, it depends on how you want to take it. If it's some kind of sport/job to you that you absolutely must have everything NOW, yeah, it'll wear you out.

Also, where the fk are the update notes?!

[Loaar]

They said in the "end of beta 2" message that update notes will be posted on the day Beta 3 starts.

Full details will be announced in the Version Update Details section of the Beta Test Site on the day Beta 3 commences.

[shaddix]

Being useful to your party isn't being mediocre.

Beating content by having to think about your options before a fight isn't bad. If your idea of being "good" is getting the best gear, the optimal stats and skills, and facerolling to kill the mob then I can't say I care if SE designs a game you don't like.

I just don't want to be shit at everything. Being awesome at a few things is more fun than being mediocre at everything. If they do it this way it's like they are forcing you to play hume/mithra in ff11 D:!!!!!

[Hyan]

I just don't want to be shit at everything. Being awesome at a few things is more fun than being mediocre at everything. If they do it this way it's like they are forcing you to play hume/mithra in ff11 D:!!!!!

The opposite would be removing the stat allocation completely because it would be useless, and you bet SE would just give your Marauder random 60 INT at level cap anyway :D.

"Shit" and "mediocre" is also subjective in this case, lol

[Gokulo]

Yay faster than expected

Phase 3 of beta testing commences Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 02:00(GMT)!

[shaddix]

The opposite would be removing the stat allocation completely because it would be useless, and you bet SE would just give your Marauder random 60 INT at level cap anyway :D.

"Shit" and "mediocre" is also subjective in this case, lol

That is true I suppose, I guess the best thing to do is to just roll multiple characters! I had 4 accounts with all 16 content IDs active in 11 so I guess I can do it again in 14!

[Spira]

and they just released a fansite kit.. which is pretty nifty.. even tho we've probably ripped most of it already.

at least its official